The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by bluegospel Very well put Sundial. I think I actually agree with everything said here. I make just one addition: He honors men, by his sovereign prerogative, by allowing and commissioning them to speak in his behalf. And he graces such as these, and the human race as well, yes, by a holy writ.

That's not an "addition" ... those are your words, and they probably reflect what you have been taught since your childhood. But perhaps you have never thought to pause to consider what you have just written. How utterly condescending, even patronizing, such a position is ... with regard to the Creator of the Universe, no less. You state that "he honors men," that he "allows and commissions(!) them to speak on his behalf," and that he "graces them by a holy writ." Perhaps he needs to jerk your chain up short, just as surely as he is said to have done with Job's. If God wants someone to speak on his behalf, he has but to command the mountains to do so.

This "holy writ" that you speak of is, no doubt, the collection of sixty-six books, specifically the "canonical" versions of those documents, that was thrust into your hands when you were, say, three years old. Doubtless you have no idea where it came from ... where it actually came from. How the selection was made. The alternate endings, the omitted passages ... all of the messy, dirty things that happen to ancient books that subsequently turn into "holy writs" of this culture or that one.

Why am I harping on this? Because a "faith" that is based upon a mis-understood book, and an inflated view of man's true standing, will fail you. It will have you standing in the temple in the shoes of the Pharisee, not that of the Publican.

"My thoughts are not your thoughts. My ways are not your ways." A potter can make a vase or a chamber-pot, and he can smash either one of them, and the pottery has no grounds for complaint.

You're quite fluent quoting the parts of Scripture you like Sundial. I don't believe the Bible's entirety only because I was brought up that way but came to believe the Bible in a way not unlike the way you've come to be so eclectic. In fact, I held quite firmly to Islam for two years as a youth. I migrated from Islam to eclecticism (if that's a word), which led me to the Bible and other texts. And there is something very unique about the Bible--it's either a stumbling stone, or the cornerstone; for me it's my rock, my cornerstone.

Originally Posted by bluegospel I don't believe the Bible's entirety ... And there is something very unique about the Bible--it's either a stumbling stone, or the cornerstone; for me it's my rock, my cornerstone.

The parts you don't believe in? The parts you do believe in? Or both?

And please enlighten us as to by what authority you decide not to believe certain parts.

The way I actually worded that Moxieman, was,

I don't believe the Bible's entirety only because I was brought up that way, as in,

My reason for believing the Bible's entirety is not solely the way I was brought up

I guess my wording is somewhat ambiguous here.

Have a good night folks.

Originally Posted by bluegospel The way I actually worded that Moxieman, was, I don't believe the Bible's entirety only because I was brought up that way, as in, My reason for believing the Bible's entirety is not solely the way I was brought up I guess my wording is somewhat ambiguous here.

Are you telling us that you believe in the Bible's entirety (and infallibility) now?

Yes, which was my original intent. The way I worded it at first was awkward.

Everything 'living' is just an 'organic' machine made up of matter.

Originally Posted by moxieman99 The parts you don't believe in? The parts you do believe in? Or both? And please enlighten us as to by what authority you decide not to believe certain parts.

I don't believe in parts of the bible. There are many great things and hidden knowledge but there are also parts influenced by men. The Bible has been translated numerous times and there are variations in each. Taking an all or nothing approach quite often leaves you with nothing. Maybe I rationalize it by saying it's something I'm not meant to understand at this point in my life. It's up to God to decide in the end and I don't need approval from man in my beliefs.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I don't believe in parts of the bible. There are many great things and hidden knowledge but there are also parts influenced by men. The Bible has been translated numerous times and there are variations in each. Taking an all or nothing approach quite often leaves you with nothing. Maybe I rationalize it by saying it's something I'm not meant to understand at this point in my life. It's up to God to decide in the end and I don't need approval from man in my beliefs.

Well said. Given your non-need for approval, what do you think of bluesgospel's responses and statements in this thread?

Originally Posted by moxieman99 Well said. Given your non-need for approval, what do you think of bluesgospel's responses and statements in this thread?

He's enthusiastic. An item that is lacking in much of today's society. I wander in and out of his threads but can't commit myself to engaging for more than the random comment. The original topic wasn't something I wasn't interesting in commenting on, almost like a chicken and an egg discussion. Almost bordering on a if God is all powerful can he create an object so large he can't lift it? I don't mind the threads, it's something different in the general forum and a little more human than most the other threads.

When I was young I believed there was a god, it was outthere,
had a book called the bible, and was omnipotent, omnipresent, etc.

The values they had were and are really good, that is something that will
be with me forever.

When I was young I also believed there were dragons and ghosts, I believed there were lots of things..., and imagination an fantasy will also
be with me forever.

But...

Then I grew up. And asked for evidences so that I could trust or
not in someone/something. Then I saw that lots of things were
just fantasy..., they were amazing, great, but they were fantasy.
No ghosts, no dragons, and of course no God that would take care of
me (I do not mind if there is one billion people, a book, or whatever telling me that God exists, I won't believe because there is just no evidence).

So...

Everytime someone tells me to "believe", or to
have "faith" in God I feel that they are trying to fool me.

Why?
Well, because then there is no option to argue,

How could I argue with anyone that would tell me that something IS like that cause God said it in a bible, or whatever book.

They are making an assumption there,

"There exists a God", or "There exist some Gods"

They ask me to believe in something, to have faith...,
I answer, I can have faith in my friends, in myself, in my team in a soccer game..., but do not ask me to have faith in something that IS still fantasy.


Maybe more a rant than a thread, but I felt I had to share this with you (believers, and not believers, with all due respect)

I believe in God because there is no other adequate explanation for religious experience, and because, like any good scientific hypothesis, the existence of God is the simplest explanation for many disparate phenomena.

The best discussions are
The existence of God, by R. Swinburne. Oxford, 2004.
The evidential force of religious experience, by C.Davis. Oxford, 1989.
but these are works by professional philosophers and a bit tough for a non-native speaker of English. I dare say the are equivalents in Spanish or French.

@ aizkorri
I agree with you, and it is good that you realized this.

I bet the mods will probably move this to:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...9/page114.html

To all those who believe in the infallibility of the Bible (New Testament, especially), do some open-minded research into the Gnostic gospels. I realise that an "open-minded true believer" is an oxymoron, but give it a try.

Yes and for a limited time only, you too can experience the 'God' effect. Take one highpowered electromagnet and place it on the left side of your head above and behind your ear. People report feeling a 'presence' in the room, that there is 'more too life', and even something bigger than your self. Side effects may include feeling 'down', feeling 'out of place', and an overal sense of hopelessness. We are not responsible for miss application and loosing your ability to acuratly judge the intentions of people.

Seriously though, aside from that. The Universal Soul or Conciousness is sort of believable to me. There are lots of things that people were unable to sense or detect before. Who's to say that there isn't something not yet discovered? Science has a lot of theories that are accepted as true until disprooven, but even those things don't describe everything in the universe.

Either way, did somebody have to teach you that there was air and that your body needs the oxygen in the air to survive? No, you just breath it in and everything works. On that note, have you 'tested' for air? how do you know it's there? You beleive it's there because science says they tested it for you and wrote it down in a book. Is that not the same thing as somebody 'testing for God' and writing it down in the 'bible'? Not that I'm religious or anything. I believe people spend too much time thinking about the things that they can not change or begin to understand. Especially when it doesn't even affect their day to day lives. That's fine if you want to be a scientist and find out how the universe works. But not everybody can be a scientist and not everybody needs to fully understand the universe to live in it. I'll keep doing my thing until something comes up.