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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.82%
Deist 18 3.09%
Theist 23 3.95%
Agnostic 120 20.58%
Atheist 254 43.57%
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:27 PM   #1696
XavierP
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The problem is that the Gospels contradict each other. One Gospel has the "meek lamb" version as the main character, another Gospel has the guy with a sword. These are supposed to tell us the facts, yet sadly can't agree with each other. The underlying messages that we are left with are fine, but the differences between the main tellings mean that we do not get a coherent picture of what we are being told.
 
Old 07-02-2011, 04:45 PM   #1697
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Doesn't Jesus say somewhere: "Those of you that have not swords, go and buy one." Summat like that anyhow. He was a Jewish fundamentalist, he wanted the Romans out, and the corruption of the puppet Judaean authorities cleaned up. The "casting out of the moneylenders" from the Temple was probably more like a terrrorist attack. Pontius Pilate had a reputation for brutality beyond the average Roman standards, which were bad. Not the sort to wash his hands of dealing with troublemakers. Not the sort to ask a subjugated people who he should release. Barabbas? Jesus bar Abbas = Jesus, son of the father. Same person.
 
Old 07-02-2011, 08:11 PM   #1698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Doesn't Jesus say somewhere: "Those of you that have not swords, go and buy one."
Aside from that, there's always plenty of slaughter in the old testament.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 03:40 PM   #1699
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Quote:
Dugan said: Would you be open to checking out one (or some) of the many books documenting the evidence that suggests that humans are cousins of apes?

Barth said: Tell you what, I'll carefully study a dozen or two pages of your most recommended book, if you'll carefully study either the book of Proverbs or the gospel of either Matthew, Luke, or John.

Dugan answered: That is an incredibly cowardly way to say you're not interested.
First, I've already lived 35 years.
Second, I've already spent 35 years.
Third, I've only 45 years still to spend if I'm fortunate.
65 years if very blessed.
65 years at most.

Now, I've affirmed that I would spend time carefully studying a dozen or two pages of your book. That's a few hours at least of my time—if I'm careful. A few hours of time I'll never get back. I know enough about your book that it's not of eternal consequence to me. Yet I would spend some time, in a last ditch effort to convince someone (you maybe?) of your book's error.

But your answer is to berate me.

PS: I've studied enough of Darwin's O of the Species to know he was pretty bright in many respects, enough to learn about how man can modify nature by science (pure-breeds, etc). But that's already obvious to me. Man can modify nature. But nature doesn't modify itself. Man is the pinnacle of God's creation, and is appointed to govern the earth.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 03:49 PM   #1700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
Now, I've affirmed that I would spend time carefully studying a dozen or two pages of your book.

But your answer is to berate me.
I agree that what you wrote above is an accurate description of what has happened. Given that, my answer was appropriate and the observations in it were accurate.

Last edited by dugan; 07-03-2011 at 03:57 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 03:54 PM   #1701
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
But nature doesn't modify itself.
Can you please explain how things like mutations or cancer can exist, if nature can't modify itself?
Some bacterias are able to exchange a part of their DNA with other bacterias. Some bacterias become immune to antibiotics in only a few generations. Viruses are changing the DNA of existing cells to reproduce themselves.
But nature can't modify itself? I doubt so.

Edit: I am "only" 34 years on this planet, but I can't think about only one reason why I should stop to learn and read about things unknown to me, even if I conclude after (not before) my studies that I won't believe what I have read.
You have read a book from Darwin that is more than 150 years old (before someone even thought about DNA and stuff) and from that point of view you are rejecting to learn anything new about that topic. Sorry I have to say that, but I would consider that rather closed minded.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 07-03-2011 at 04:00 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 03:59 PM   #1702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Can you please explain how things like mutations or cancer can exist, if nature can't modify itself?
Some bacterias are able to exchange a part of their DNA with other bacterias. Some bacterias become immune to antibiotics in only a few generations. Viruses are changing the DNA of existing cells to reproduce themselves.
But nature can't modify itself? I doubt so.
Hint: when you follow up on this, you should start by defining what you mean by "nature" and "modify."

Last edited by dugan; 07-03-2011 at 04:11 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 04:08 PM   #1703
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
But nature doesn't modify itself.
Incorrect. If you lived for 35 years, you should try to remember nature 25..30 years ago, and compare it with today's situation.

That reminds me...
 
Old 07-03-2011, 04:12 PM   #1704
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Can you please explain how things like mutations or cancer can exist, if nature can't modify itself?
Some bacterias are able to exchange a part of their DNA with other bacterias. Some bacterias become immune to antibiotics in only a few generations. Viruses are changing the DNA of existing cells to reproduce themselves.
These are instances of nature, not modifications. It's the same nature reproducing these variations.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 04:18 PM   #1705
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Quote:
I would spend time carefully studying a dozen or two pages of your book. That's a few hours at least of my time
* gives Bluegospel an incredulous look

If that is how you usually read books then you're doing it wrong.

Quote:
These are instances of nature, not modifications. It's the same nature reproducing these variations.
I'm not sure if I know what you mean, but why can the same not be said for any instance of evolution?

Last edited by dugan; 07-03-2011 at 04:36 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2011, 04:36 PM   #1706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
These are instances of nature, not modifications. It's the same nature reproducing these variations.
That is the way evolution works. No one thinks that one day a completely different life-form is born (or in any other way derived) from an already existing life-form. The life-forms evolve slowly, dependent on their environment.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 05:57 AM   #1707
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Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg

and with that I leave this thread for a while.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 06:02 AM   #1708
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg

and with that I leave this thread for a while.
Maybe he was really onto something there .
 
Old 07-04-2011, 06:57 AM   #1709
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg

and with that I leave this thread for a while.
Yeah, right. Imagine no possessions: sat at a grand piano costing thousands, in a mansion worth millions.
 
Old 07-04-2011, 11:20 AM   #1710
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Oh yea, there is that
 
  


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