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firm believer 168 28.97%
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:09 PM   #1546
bluegospel
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And I have noticed that it is a protestant based sect anyways that do this.
I've always lived in Pennsylvania, and here, the two primary groups of religious people who go door to door are Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons, both of which the Protestants more or less unanimously reject as cults. It's pretty rare that Christians go door to door, notwithstanding you'll have your anomolies. You'll find them more often in the city handing out Bible tracts, etc.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:13 PM   #1547
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if and when I should ever to re-affirm my faith I will always make sure that I make that distinction that I clearly align myself with the Orthodox Church
I'd much rather see you devoted to Christ in an Orthodox church than join my church without faith.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:17 PM   #1548
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it is not really about 'saving other people', it is purely about who has the biggest congregation and in turn get more money
Quite often that's the case, unfortunately.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:23 PM   #1549
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
I've always lived in Pennsylvania, and here, the two primary groups of religious people who go door to door are Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons, both of which the Protestants more or less unanimously reject as cults.
Cults or un-Orthodox(pun not intended)-Protestant they are spawned from the Protestant movement because before that, thats what they were. Whatever they call themselves now (Mormon, Jehovah's Witness) isn't enough for me to not distinguish them as still some kind of Protestant sect, so that is why I consider them Protestant offshoots. Then you have subgroups of Baptists, the Pentacostals 7th Day Advents... Before that when they landed from England, they were Puritan or from the Church of England i.e. Protestant.

Ok well now to be fair, Orthodoxy does have other groups but still nowhere NEAR like the Protestants.... I don't think . Orthodox i.e. Coptic (a different group)

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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
It's pretty rare that Christians go door to door, notwithstanding you'll have your anomolies. You'll find them more often in the city handing out Bible tracts, etc.
Or on college/uni. campuses handing them out, (the Gideons). Again, sorry to generalise but I never really see Catholics or Orthodox do that or at least *I* haven't. It is Protestants.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 06-30-2011 at 07:32 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:25 PM   #1550
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There are also folks (the proportion of which I have no idea), who know the significance of a soul lost for eternity, and who also want to see you in "heaven."

Sure only if you believe what and how THEY believe, other wise no. I get this also mostly from the Baptists and Evangelicals.
I can't speak for other Christians, but if I could persuade you to own just a few tenets of Scripture that would assure me your on your way to heaven, that would make me more happy than the day I married my wife.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:30 PM   #1551
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...and if people don't want to get into "heaven"?
Well then, I guess all I can do is pray for them.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 07:42 PM   #1552
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I don't have a problem with that, but unfortunately that doesn't mean they won't cease anymore unwanted proselytizing. Most won't get the message coming from the other direction that they just wish not to be preached at. At that point it becomes an issue of personal space and privacy and doesn't really give them the right to continue on if I refuse to hear any more of their message.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 08:06 PM   #1553
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I never really see Catholics or Orthodox do that or at least *I* haven't. It is Protestants.
You also have to consider, at the institutional level, who championed the Crusades. That, I would say, eclipses Bible-thumpers disturbing college students' mornings. And how about Indulgences? How blantantly corrupt is that? Preaching that you can buy your salvation with money. That was a standard of the Catholic Church.

Another thing that is obvious (at least in my opinion) is the origin of the Catholic Church. The Christian church originated with the 12 Apostles, and at least several hundred, devout followers of Christ. Following the first Jewish celebration of Pentecost (see Acts) after Christ's death (we won't assume here his resurrection), and Peter's sermon to the onlookers to the events then taking place among the Christians, 3000 were added to their number in one day!

Unfortunately we don't have on record the numbers added each day, but the Bible does tell us that those being saved were added daily. My point is, the Christian church, in it's early days was thriving, which threatened the Roman power monopoly. We all know the Romans killed many leaders of the church to try to quell this "uprising." When they realized they couldn't beat it, they were left with three options: give in (no way), get in, or forge a counterfeit. To me it's obvious they made a counterfeit. That's not to say there aren't Catholics who believe the gospel, and are saved. But at the institutional level?

To be honest, I'm not too familiar about Orthodoxy. To me, all the liturgy is very boring. In a strange sense curious, but it makes me very drowsy.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 08:16 PM   #1554
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You have to realize too, it's easy to get carried away when you're accustomed to thinking in terms of eternity, and you're in this decaying body.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #1555
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
You also have to consider, at the institutional level, who championed the Crusades. That, I would say, eclipses Bible-thumpers disturbing college students' mornings. And how about Indulgences? How blantantly corrupt is that? Preaching that you can buy your salvation with money. That was a standard of the Catholic Church.
No argument there and of course thats not to say that the Byzantine Empire never crossed swords with Muslims, because they have many a times, but on the Catholic side they were the ones who constantly broke peace by repeated attempts to retake Jerusalem, not the Orthodox Church and yea there is no such thing as indulgences either that I am aware of in Orthodoxy.

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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
Another thing that is obvious (at least in my opinion) is the origin of the Catholic Church. The Christian church originated with the 12 Apostles, and at least several hundred, devout followers of Christ. Following the first Jewish celebration of Pentecost (see Acts) after Christ's death (we won't assume here his resurrection), and Peter's sermon to the onlookers to the events then taking place among the Christians, 3000 were added to their number in one day!

Unfortunately we don't have on record the numbers added each day, but the Bible does tell us that those being saved were added daily. My point is, the Christian church, in it's early days was thriving, which threatened the Roman power monopoly. We all know the Romans killed many leaders of the church to try to quell this "uprising." When they realized they couldn't beat it, they were left with three options: give in (no way), get in, or forge a counterfeit. To me it's obvious they made a counterfeit. That's not to say there aren't Catholics who believe the gospel, and are saved. But at the institutional level?
As far as the split is concerned just look for a cliff notes version about The Great Schism because you don't really have to go too in depth and I wouldn't anyways unless you like reading rather long history stories. One of the reasons for the split was the Pope, at least that is what we eastern Christians consider, as well as arguing the fact that it was Rome who broke away from Byzantium not the other way around. We don't have a Pope though 'technically' there is a head of the Orthodox church however unlike the Catholic Pope, nobody in the Orthodox organization is considered to be:
  • Infallible
  • Say is final
  • God's right-hand man
  • Only one who can speak to God

...And so forth like the Catholic Pope considers himself to be as well as other differences on how the Church was supposed to be run (Byzantium having a different take vs. Rome).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
To be honest, I'm not too familiar about Orthodoxy. To me, all the liturgy is very boring. In a strange sense curious, but it makes me very drowsy.
Books at libraries are good for general info as well as Orthodox sites on the net, but that is as far as I will lead you because I have no intention/desire to try to proselytize or anything and I already feel as though I am beginning to cross that line just by arguing my side vs Catholics

Last edited by Jeebizz; 06-30-2011 at 08:27 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 08:42 PM   #1556
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A lot of that's over my head Jeebiz, but I do have a question before I try to go to bed.

Quote:
nobody in the Orthodox organization is considered to be:

* Infallible
Orthodox folks do believe Christ is infallible don't you? And that he was physically resurrected imperishable?
 
Old 06-30-2011, 08:58 PM   #1557
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
A lot of that's over my head Jeebiz, but I do have a question before I try to go to bed.



Orthodox folks do believe Christ is infallible don't you? And that he was physically resurrected imperishable?
Good question, ....I'm not sure, LOL ... My intuition would want me to answer only God, but the issue of the Trinity itself is also.....A trip... Also I'm no theologian or any priest so...And my commentary about infallibility was aimed at the Catholic Pope.

And the reason I say the Trinity can be tricky because of the idea that Jesus is God's only son, and the Holy Father & Holy Ghost, but then if they are part of God, or then multiple Gods even though there is supposedly one God? Remember just because Christianity tends to denote itself as monotheistic, that doesn't mean that at some point it doesn't cross that line or at least blur it, and that is usually because of the Trinity.. .. Bleh, but really lets not go too much into that, nobody's head needs to explode or anything.


Also I guess the reason why I am so hell-bent () on drawing distinctions between Orthodoxy and Catholicism is because at one point in my life (around middle school) I was approached by a Christian group, and I told them I was Orthodox Christian but somehow they interpreted that as me being in Communion with Rome and essentially a Papist, so then I was not really saved. Yes I was told this.... I guess that had a really bad effect on me. Sorry, Catholicism != Orthodoxy nor does Orthodoxy == Catholicism.


Bleh, but anyways I'm ranting again... As far as the whole Orthodoxy thing is concerned though don't really nothing to concern yourself with much, particularly before bed we'll just let the matter rest so can you .

Last edited by Jeebizz; 06-30-2011 at 09:01 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 09:04 PM   #1558
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And the reason I say the Trinity can be tricky because of the idea that Jesus is God's only son, but the Holy Father & Holy Ghost, but then if they are part of God, or then multiple Gods even though there is supposedly one God?
There's an easy way to clear the confusion there. If you think in terms of one school of fish, or one class of students--it's kind of the same thing. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, are one God, 3 persons.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 09:12 PM   #1559
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Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
There's an easy way to clear the confusion there. If you think in terms of one school of fish, or one class of students--it's kind of the same thing. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, are one God, 3 persons.
Jesus is God? But Jesus is God's son so only God can be God but....Huh?

Bill Maher's take on The Trinity

Sorry don't mean to involve Bill Maher, but yea... I think he's funny too .

Last edited by Jeebizz; 06-30-2011 at 09:14 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 09:22 PM   #1560
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Sorry don't mean to involve Bill Maher, but yea... I think he's funny too .
That would be funny to me too had Christ not died for him.
 
  


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