The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie Why would you mistrust Global Warming theories? Why seed was planted in your mind that it was not correct? Generally for most people this seems to be big business and the Republicans in America collectively saying it's nonsense, and all their followers picking up on that skepticism without proof, like some... sort. .... of.... religion.... Just about no one doubts climate change from their own free thought and reasoning.

I mistrust Global warming theories because of what I see the governments doing with this theory. One of those books you laugh at has a saying "By their fruits you shall know them". Tell me do you believe all the "fruit" of global warming? Do you believe Carbon credits are doing anything?
Do you believe Carbon Capture and storage is helping? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage
Do you believe Ethanol is reducing Global warming?
Do you believe in Emissions trading?
Do you believe the facts and numbers are accurate?
Do you believe in controlling energy?
What impact do you believe global warming has?

Now on to the interesting parts
What price are you willing to pay to prevent global warming?
What price are you willing to see others pay to prevent global warming? (what if they are not willing to pay?)
On the ethanol point, are you willing to see people starve for global warming?
Are you willing to slow development of new technologies that may or may not impact global warming?

My views on global warming have nothing to do with religion, I've never heard a for or against from my religious leaders. I doubt global warming through my own free thought and reasoning.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid My views on global warming have nothing to do with religion...

Are they still on topic then?

Originally Posted by dugan Are they still on topic then?

I believe the discussion went to science vs religion. If you do not wish to go off on the tangent then I believe I'm done with it. My line of thinking was that Science as well as religion can have many paths. Just because something is religious or something is scientific doesn't mean you have to believe all of it. Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I have to believe everything the Protestants, the Catholics, the Evangelicals, the Jews, etc believe just because they are a religion. We may have shared beliefs and strive toward a common goal but at the end of the day they are not the same and lumping all together is short sighted. Religions can work together to achieve common goals but each is different and you will need to decide if you believe in whatever one you select or if there is something else out there that fits closer to what you believe God desires. Some may say Science and Religion are exclusive and you can't be a Scientist and believe but that is not the case, man is not made in binary, it's not just black and white, there are colors and shades within the colors that everyone exists.

Hey My wife has all the proof that man evolved from apes ... I still hang from trees (if my wife says it's ok)

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I mistrust Global warming theories because of what I see the governments doing with this theory. One of those books you laugh at has a saying "By their fruits you shall know them". Tell me do you believe all the "fruit" of global warming? Do you believe Carbon credits are doing anything? Do you believe Carbon Capture and storage is helping? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage Do you believe Ethanol is reducing Global warming? Do you believe in Emissions trading? Do you believe the facts and numbers are accurate? Do you believe in controlling energy? What impact do you believe global warming has? Now on to the interesting parts What price are you willing to pay to prevent global warming? What price are you willing to see others pay to prevent global warming? (what if they are not willing to pay?) On the ethanol point, are you willing to see people starve for global warming? Are you willing to slow development of new technologies that may or may not impact global warming? My views on global warming have nothing to do with religion, I've never heard a for or against from my religious leaders. I doubt global warming through my own free thought and reasoning.

So you are saying: I don't believe that Global Warming is true, because politicians and commercial entities abuse it to follow their own aims.
You are not saying: I don't belief that Global Warming is true, because the science behind is flawed or the data they use is faulty.

Do I get that right?

Originally Posted by TobiSGD So you are saying: I don't believe that Global Warming is true, because politicians and commercial entities abuse it to follow their own aims. You are not saying: I don't belief that Global Warming is true, because the science behind is flawed or the data they use is faulty. Do I get that right?

And what does the belief here state? is it false or not proven? I think there's a hell of a lot more big business money working away to prove it's false than true. If you say it's false, then aren't you just as guilty for the exact same reasons? You're free to be agnostic, but that's not at all the same as denial.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD So you are saying: I don't believe that Global Warming is true, because politicians and commercial entities abuse it to follow their own aims. You are not saying: I don't belief that Global Warming is true, because the science behind is flawed or the data they use is faulty. Do I get that right?

I'm saying the conclusions are flawed. I'm not opposed to alternate energy that is an increase in efficiency, increasing efficiency, making the world a cleaner place, planting some trees, reducing what I consume, reusing, recycling, but I am opposed to increasing costs for something that may or may not be real. The ethanol initiative alone is increasing the cost of food, driving the farm community to the huge corporate farm model, decreasing efficiency of your vehicle, decreasing shelf life of fuel, causing problems in older vehicles and forced on the consumer. Carbon Credits, are you serious? Let me get this concept right, you are going to pay some other "Green" entity so you can pollute more? Is that "Green" entity going to chop down trees, rip up the environment when you stop paying? If you wish to give your money away be my guest but don't force me to give mine away.

So bringing this into a religious discussion, what happens if I don't believe the in the global warming religion? It's worse than a cult, money is taken from the believers and non-believers, is the world going to end? When? What are the consequences to my non-belief? Do the non-believers get sent to a warmer place than the believers? Is the theory somehow less true because I don't believe? Is my statement of I read the Global warming findings/statements/data and laughed somehow less valid than yours of the Bible?

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid Is my statement of I read the Global warming findings/statements/data and laughed somehow less valid than yours of the Bible?

Are you saying that it's valid to laugh at the Bible, or are you saying that your own response to global warming evidence is invalid?

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I'm saying the conclusions are flawed. I'm not opposed to alternate energy that is an increase in efficiency, increasing efficiency, making the world a cleaner place, planting some trees, reducing what I consume, reusing, recycling, but I am opposed to increasing costs for something that may or may not be real.

"may or may not" is not 50/50. The Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot "may or may not" exist, but evidence says it's obscenely unlikely. Global warming is not a "toss up", although sure people might exploit the findings, doesn't affect what the balance of probability says is almost certainly the case.

So bringing this into a religious discussion, what happens if I don't believe the in the global warming religion? It's worse than a cult, money is taken from the believers and non-believers, is the world going to end? When? What are the consequences to my non-belief? Do the non-believers get sent to a warmer place than the believers? Is the theory somehow less true because I don't believe? Is my statement of I read the Global warming findings/statements/data and laughed somehow less valid than yours of the Bible?

of course it's less valid, as global warming has the scientific method behind it, whereas the bible is a collection of stories for population control which has been oddly taken to be true by many with no evidence at all.

Originally Posted by dugan Are you saying that it's valid to laugh at the Bible, or are you saying that your own response to global warming evidence is invalid?

As much as yours yes.

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie "may or may not" is not 50/50. The Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot "may or may not" exist, but evidence says it's obscenely unlikely. Global warming is not a "toss up", although sure people might exploit the findings, doesn't affect what the balance of probability says is almost certainly the case. of course it's less valid, as global warming has the scientific method behind it, whereas the bible is a collection of stories for population control which has been oddly taken to be true by many with no evidence at all.

So global warming collection's of data for population control is somehow more valid because of "Science" than the bible's collection of stories for population control? I still haven't heard the consequences of my failure to believe in Global Warming, are they the same as the Bible's (we both go to a warmer place?)

It's becoming extremely apparent to me that Blinker_Fluid has no idea what science is or how it works.

Originally Posted by dugan It's becoming extremely apparent to me that Blinker_Fluid has no idea what science is or how it works.

That's fine, I also feel some don't have any idea what religion is or how it works.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid So global warming collection's of data for population control is somehow more valid because of "Science" than the bible's collection of stories for population control? I still haven't heard the consequences of my failure to believe in Global Warming, are they the same as the Bible's (we both go to a warmer place?)

There are no consequences from 1 persons perspective, because you are individually insignificant. Just like your vote is irrelevant, and your buying habits.

A god that sends me for hell for living a good life of virtue whether I believe in him or not is a pretty shitty god imho, especially as I could've murdered a whole bag of babies but said sorry and gone to heaven instead.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid That's fine, I also feel some don't have any idea what religion is or how it works.

I think it's not unreasonable to suggest that a large number of believers of all the religions equally don't understand what religion is. And by that I mean the exact same reasons, not mine vs yours.

But you know, we're pretty similar, there are hundreds of gods you don't believe in, I just believe in one less than you. What was wrong with all the other gods out there?