The Faith & Religion mega Thread

I think most of the problem people have with regarding humans as animals is that the term "animal" is "tainted", in the sense that it's most often used to refer to non-human species and/or is used in the pejorative to indicate that someone has a low moral standard or is unintelligent.

Another problem people have is that it suggests that humans are every bit as predictable/conditionable as other animals (and strictly speaking, we are; our behavior is just more complex, so it's simply more difficult to predict ).

Originally Posted by MrCode as predictable/conditionable as other animals

Whoever thinks that way probably has never had a cat in their life...

This thread's gone slightly off-topic, so here's a little poem from Joyce's "Ulysses" to stir things up a bit:

--I'm the queerest young fellow that ever you heard. My mother's a jew, my father's a bird. With Joseph the joiner I cannot agree. So here's to disciples and Calvary._ _--If anyone thinks that I amn't divine He'll get no free drinks when I'm making the wine But have to drink water and wish it were plain That i make when the wine becomes water again._ _--Goodbye, now, goodbye! Write down all I said And tell Tom, Dick and Harry I rose from the dead. What's bred in the bone cannot fail me to fly And Olivet's breezy... Goodbye, now, goodbye!_

It's called "The Ballad Of Joking Jesus".

Originally Posted by SigTerm As far as I know, the only reason why people didn't already lost 1 billions of people due to starvation is because some dude has improved agriculture, and getting more food requires genetic engineering. Can't say if this is true or not, but as far as I know, there's nothing natural about currently used food production.

I view agriculture as natural. I may be biased and just a hick from the country but that's what I believe. The genetic engineering is an interesting discussion, what do you consider engineering? Is taking a variety that does well and cross breeding with another that has other desirable traits cross some line? The old Holstein cow produces a lot of milk but her udders are too close to the ground so we'll breed her with a Brown Swiss that is taller and see what happens is that genetic engineering? Do we have to have a mad scientist in the lab before it's considered genetic engineering? To say engineering is bad is like a kid afraid of the basement. It smells funny down there and they don't want to go down the stairs. Do people actually believe we keep cows locked up in a spot where they can't turn around? Do they actually think I used steroids every chance I get? Maybe it's shocking but if you kill what you are growing before it's time you won't make any money.

I believe man is like a gardener, It's man's responsibility to organize and promote things that are beneficial. I believe we have control over our surroundings and I'm not just another common animal and it's through my influence that I live in a more friendly to me environment.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I believe man is like a gardener, It's man's responsibility to organize and promote things that are beneficial. I believe we have control over our surroundings and I'm not just another common animal and it's through my influence that I live in a more friendly to me environment.

You mean like termites that live in air conditioned towers and are capable of growing fungi?

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I view agriculture as natural.

Last time I checked, it is not natural. Nothing used in today's agriculture appears in the wild without strict control from human.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid The genetic engineering is an interesting discussion, what do you consider engineering?

Adding properties that cannot be introduced by cross-breeding. Many species can't cross-breed.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid The old Holstein cow produces a lot of milk but her udders are too close to the ground so we'll breed her with a Brown Swiss that is taller and see what happens is that genetic engineering?

That's artificial selection.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid To say engineering is bad is like a kid afraid of the basement.

Now, where the hell I said it is bad? The choice is very simple - either you resort to genetic engineering or everybody dies.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I believe man is like a gardener,

That's kinda old-fashioned and very unrealistic. I believe a man is a plague. If people won't use their brains, entire race will go extinct and might as well take entire planet along with them. On other hand, without humans, life will probably recover within a few hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid I believe we have control over our surroundings

You don't have control. Weather, planetary axis, tectonic plates, sun are all included in "surroundings". You have either limited or no control over them.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD You mean like termites that live in air conditioned towers and are capable of growing fungi?

Good point. Ants had farms, farm animals and buildings long before humans...

I believe a man is a plague. If people won't use their brains, entire race will go extinct and might as well take entire planet along with them. On other hand, without humans, life will probably recover within a few hundreds of years.

By that logic, shouldn't we all just give up hope and kill ourselves now to save the planet? After all, we'll never learn…

Originally Posted by MrCode kill ourselves now to save the planet?

Well, this obviously would save the planet, however, I'd refuse to participate.

Killing ourselves? I don't think so. Possibly, we could just take it easy when it comes to reproducing...

You're all falling for the propaganda. One day they'll say on TV to go hang yourself or blow your brains out because there's too many of you. I bet most of you would do just that if you were told to.

Originally Posted by Agent Smith "I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had, during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you aren’t actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with its surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply, and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we... are the cure."

It is inevitable Mr. Anderson ...

Anyway if you are capable of understanding the movie, then you'll understand who the virus or parasite really is.

Now, tell me, who are you ? Are you an agent perhaps ? You seem to think so much like them. To be honest, they almost had me convinced too ... almost.

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H You're all falling for the propaganda. One day they'll say on TV to go hang yourself or blow your brains out because there's too many of you. I bet most of you would do just that if you were told to. It is inevitable Mr. Anderson ... Anyway if you are capable of understanding the movie, then you'll understand who the virus or parasite really is. Now, tell me, who are you ? Are you an agent perhaps ? You seem to think so much like them. To be honest, they almost had me convinced too ... almost.

Keep trolling, H_TeXMeX_H.

Before this snippet magically arrives at the entirely unrelated, “Rate your Religiousness” thread, let's talk about as many legitimate notions of evolution as we can.

First, there's technology.

Second—well, sorry, there is no second. The only element in nature that we can ever verify as having evolved is that of human invention. Sad to say, not all inventions are evolutionary, (consider the course science theory has taken). Even our array of “pure bread” species of beasts, are but the product of human invention (the breed, not the creature itself).

Perhaps having seen the evolution of such technologies as these, throughout human history, accounts for the fact that so many people in "modern" science are inspired to hope, or wish, that the evolution tale is in fact the origin and consummation of our cosmos. Nevertheless, human invention is still the only evolved feature of nature anyone can confirm, either by natural observation or by controlled science.

As the creation camp can clearly see, even throughout written or other sources of world history, nature's course if fixed. The only variable is humanity, and her modifications of her environment by her genius. Contenders—show me something new in nature besides the discovery itself, and besides the inventions & conveniences of humanity. Show me that, and sure, I'll go along with your favorites—Darwin or Dawkins, or whoever. Until then, rest assured, Christ is our maker.

Originally Posted by bluegospel Before this snippet magically arrives at the entirely unrelated, “Rate your Religiousness”

1. You still owe people an explanation for "problem of evil". Last time you went into hiding instead of posting any answer. If you cannot address such simple problem, then you haven't given enough thought about your faith and it is a delusion, not a truth. Before trying to talk about evolution I'd advise to deal with this issue.
2. Folks in "Religiousness" thread provided plenty of information about evolution. There are tons of information on the subject, and you could easily research it - if you tried. The problem is not with evolution but with you. You want to believe you're right and refuse to doubt your own position. By doing so you refuse to use your brain which is according to your faith has been granted to you by god - as a gift. I wouldn't be surprised if a god (if exists) were offended by your behavior.

I don't normally jump on these threads, but you seem to have an inbuilt assumption that you can't believe in God and evolution. I certainly do believe in evolution, in species, in both short- and long-term ways. However, that has absolutely no bearing on my faith or lack thereof in God (I have previously been both Christian and atheist).

If you're a Christian, then fine - evolution is a beautiful and simple concept, worthy of being created by a God. When I write a programme which uses a genetic algorithm to solve a problem, then it "evolves" a solution for me; that doesn't mean that I can't exist, and the solution is probably 'mine' rather than my programme's. There is no contradiction between our development through evolution and the existence of God. And, of course, there is a lot of evidence for evolution

Originally Posted by bluegospel Before this snippet magically arrives at the entirely unrelated, “Rate your Religiousness” thread, let's talk about as many legitimate notions of evolution as we can. First, there's technology. Second—well, sorry, there is no second. The only element in nature that we can ever verify as having evolved is that of human invention. Sad to say, not all inventions are evolutionary, (consider the course science theory has taken). Even our array of “pure bread” species of beasts, are but the product of human invention (the breed, not the creature itself). Perhaps having seen the evolution of such technologies as these, throughout human history, accounts for the fact that so many people in "modern" science are inspired to hope, or wish, that the evolution tale is in fact the origin and consummation of our cosmos. Nevertheless, human invention is still the only evolved feature of nature anyone can confirm, either by natural observation or by controlled science. As the creation camp can clearly see, even throughout written or other sources of world history, nature's course if fixed. The only variable is humanity, and her modifications of her environment by her genius. Contenders—show me something new in nature besides the discovery itself, and besides the inventions & conveniences of humanity. Show me that, and sure, I'll go along with your favorites—Darwin or Dawkins, or whoever. Until then, rest assured, Christ is our maker.

As I've said before, I hate to feed the trolls, but you're incorrect. First, it's "pure bred"...look it up. Learning to spell/write clearly is the first step to be taken seriously.

Second, you say "human invention is still the only evolved feature of nature anyone can confirm, either by natural observation or by controlled science." Really?? So bacteria and other diseases that have evolved to be resistant to antibiotics is a figment of imagination? The fact that better nutrition leads to changes in human bodies (heights from the middle-ages vs. now, let's say?) is also fictitious? Give me a break...the whole of nature evolves, and it's a very clear process.

I don't want to debate you, or 'convince' you of anything...because folks such as you don't acknowledge facts, unless they fit in with your beliefs. If you did (and had paid attention in school), you'd not have even posted this, since you'd know it was wrong.

Why do you come onto LinuxQuestions, and post such drivel as the threads you've started?? Stay focused....post on technology related issues, and take this junk elsewhere.