The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by ShaanAli illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol...

Those are all compulsory in The Church Of The SubGenius.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius

Originally Posted by sycamorex Yes, that's what I'm saying and please correct me if I'm wrong but don't (all/most?) religions ultimately boil down to a simple idea: "Believe in me (god) and adhere to my rules and I (god) will grant you a place in heaven. Otherwise, I'll make sure you'll be punished in hell." That doesn't sound very liberating, does it? In this respect I think buddhism is quite different, but I'm not sure I'd classified it as a religion - more as a philosophy.

We all obey some set of rules in our life... Are you allowed to do whatever you like? NO !!

We obey our family rules, our society rules, our country rules. Even LQ also has its own rules. But when it comes to rules of GOD we object. We creep. why?

Because if we disobey other man made rules we get punishment right after that....We fear others getting punished.... SO we obey... We keep ourself in limit.... we didnt see GOD punishment so far, we dont have fear...

Originally Posted by sycamorex Another meaning could be 'to bind people together'.

My understanding of religion is:

• Fear GOD and his punishment
• Obey the Rules of GOD.
• Be a good human being and help/love His other creatures.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol..... i dont think any religion allows them!! So if you follow your religion sincerely, you have to give up these...

Christianity has absolutely no problems with alcohol, so you are wrong here.

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul Don't know about other religions much, but have read some chapters of Baghwad Gita. The Lord Krishna, only keeps on convincing the human, that you shouldn't attach yourself much to worldly ways otherwise you'll suffer in the end since humans are supposed to die, and yes he tells the human to believe in Him, but I haven't heard Him saying anywhere that if you don't believe in me, I'll send you to hell. If I find him saying something like this in the further chapters, perhaps, I'll quit Hinduism. Have also read Ramayana, in which the Lord Ram is shown duly killing the demons (I don't see any problem with that), and also it is shown the Lord Ram had eaten the fruit tasted and then offered by a schedule cast woman. It is shown that the God doesn't differentiate between humans of different castes etc. In a nutshell, I haven't YET found God dictating rules which are compulsory to follow or you get thrown to hell. and also I haven't read the Vedas and complete Baghwad Gita, but when I read them and I find God saying something like that, perhaps I'll be shunning Hinduism. You mentioned Buddhism, but I have a meager mind which doesn't know much about other religions in detail, perhaps because I have no friends and neighbors and office mates which are Christians, Buddhists.

I believe in Hinduism also there is concept of Heaven and Hell.
Heaven – Indralokha which is ruled by Lord Indra, where you go after death as a result of your good actions (Punya), you can enjoy yourself there, without any restrictions or limitations.
Hell- Yamalokha which is ruled by Lord Yama where you go after death as a result of your bad actions (Paap), and you are punished there.

The point here is who will decide if your actions are right or wrong? Ofcourse your GOD. So even its not explicitly mentioned in scripts "GOD will send you hell if you do wrong", but its obviously implied.
Dont quit Hinduism just because of this. By nature human being is bound to break the rules. If there is no punishment, who will obey rules?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol..... i dont think any religion allows them!! So if you follow your religion sincerely, you have to give up these...

Totally irrelevant, you don't need religion to refrain from those things.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli We all obey some set of rules in our life... Are you allowed to do whatever you like? NO !! We obey our family rules, our society rules, our country rules. Even LQ also has its own rules. But when it comes to rules of GOD we object. We creep. why? Because if we disobey other man made rules we get punishment right after that....We fear others getting punished.... SO we obey... We keep ourself in limit.... we didnt see GOD punishment so far, we dont have fear...

As I said, I don't have problems with rules - I've got a problem with claiming that accepting an extra set of rules (ie.religion) will set you free. That's nonsense.

You are free if you don't do bad things because you find them immoral/wrong, etc. Not because someone (god) tells you not to do it.

In this respect, I like atheists' morality - when they do good things, they do it of their own choice, not for fear of god's punishment (that's not morality at all). When they do bad things, it's also their choice. They don't find excuses that satan made them weak (or something like that.)

Originally Posted by sycamorex Totally irrelevant, you don't need religion to refrain from those things.

And refraining from them does not necessarily make you a better person.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD Christianity has absolutely no problems with alcohol, so you are wrong here.

Thats's not quite right. Although christians are able to drink the Bible does teach to avoid being given over to wine. So although drinking is not forbidden, excessive drinking is discouraged.

Whilst I find the foundations of any organised (and disorganised) religion is be utterly ludicrous I've been giving a lot of thought recently to the religions that I'm faced with daily. There are two parts of the argument I now feel pulling at me, initially one to ruthlessly laugh at and mock everything about it, but more recently the desire to understand why these people I used to discount as crazy nutjobs are actually mostly very nice, rational down to earth people.

We've moved around the place to some extent, and now live nowhere near any long term friends. I have friends from work, my wife has friends from the school run, and religious people live amongst them, who'd have thought it?? Basically I can't just mock them - they are nice, they look after ours kids after school and vice versa... so what IS the deal with them??

One thing I'm possibly coming to appreciate is that IF I could follow some form of Christianity - something I am VERY sure I never could - I think I would actually be a nicer, and happier person... freer. If I could, for example, just stop thinking and analysing every damn thing I do, life would be easier, I would feel more comfortable within myself.

In line with comments above, I am starting to see the real benefits of day to day life as a Christian. However surely these benefits should be an added bonus to it, not a reason to want it in the first place. Surely aspects like "TRUTH" should trump any love, comfort, benefit etc... that a religion provides? If you've been brought up to do the carrot dance ever 15 minutes throughout the day AND night, because that is what God wants, and outside of that you should stare at the ground at all times, who would I be to not obey that if that religion itself is "True" in my eyes? I suppose that leads to a lot of religion being a marketing excercise to balance the good with the bad etc. And it starts to fall down a lot there.

sycamorex, I think you're making some really interesting points, wish I could debate it as intelligently as you seem to be, but I'm far too ignorant of religions as a whole to stand a chance. My last comment above was triggered by your comment about "yes, my religion limits my freedom, but it has other benefits and therefore I am comfortable with it". Does that really make sense to you? Why should benefits ever be allowed to enter into that persons mind in the first place if they are a genuine believer?

your life has already been laid out for you by the laws of physics.

Every law must be written

Originally Posted by dugan And there is absolutely no reason to believe that refraining from them makes you a better person. Especially if you're defining "illegal relationships" to include homosexuality.

On top of that, I can add a few things that ARE connected with certain religions (from wikipedia):
- child marriages
- not letting the ill be treated by doctors
- Guilt about normal sexual functions
- Blood sacrifice
- Genital modification and mutilation


These, however, don't happen outside of religious communities.

Originally Posted by sycamorex On top of that, I can add a few things that ARE connected with certain religions (from wikipedia): - child marriages - not letting the ill be treated by doctors - Guilt about normal sexual functions - Blood sacrifice - Genital modification and mutilation These, however, don't happen outside of religious communities.

I think "don't" is a bit of a strong word there, how about "are much less likely to"...?

Originally Posted by sycamorex - Genital modification and mutilation These, however, don't happen outside of religious communities.

Sure it does. There are lots of people who pierce, tattoo or surgically "enhance" their genitals, and not for religious reasons.

Originally Posted by bluegospel Every law must be written

Do you mean that gravity didn't work before it was discovered? It was a law of physics long time before anyone has written it.