The Faith & Religion mega Thread

And if stamp collectors ever start killing and maiming each other over which stamps are best to collect, you can expect the resistance to stamp collecting to get a little louder. Until then, it's just a hobby.

Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid If you went around and told all the stamp collectors their stamps suck and anytime anyone mentioned stamps they go on for pages about the only way a letter should be mailed is through postage meter I would start to think that is your hobby.

If this actually happens in contexts other than a) forums designed specifically for this purpose and b) critical situations involving separation of church and state, then you might have a point. But it does not.

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H I think that each neural network becomes self aware and assumes that it is the only one that exists, because it cannot communicate to other networks. This makes you think that you are unique, and gives you a sense of self, and a fear that you may lose this sense when you die. In reality this sense is a lie, you are not unique, but you are not connected to the other networks out there, so you cannot know of them.

…sounds a lot like this.

Originally Posted by SigTerm I've noticed a problem here... There are atheistic religions (one example is Buddhism, there's also satanism and even atheistic christians). There also are/were religious scientists (one example is Einstein). Another interesting thing is that in USA in 2005 court ruled that Atheism is a religion. IMO this means that atheism is not an opposite of religion (is opposite of theism, not religion in general), being scientist doesn't mean being an atheist and that science and religion are compatible with each other. IMO, this pretty much defeats the purpose of all "existence of god" and "atheism vs religion" debates. Just my 2 cents...

Science is indeed incompatible with religion even if scientists are not. To do science it is a prerequisite to assume at least methodological naturalism if not philosophical naturalism.

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.
- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2

Einstein was an atheist ? Are you sure ?

I'm Christian. I hold firmly, not to Chrisitianity, to Christ.

Originally Posted by SL00b And if stamp collectors ever start killing and maiming each other over which stamps are best to collect, you can expect the resistance to stamp collecting to get a little louder. Until then, it's just a hobby.

There were philatelistic murders.

Originally Posted by SL00b So anyone who ever said, "Stamp collecting is a waste of time" is a stamp collector??

Let's see... if those people have a hobby of telling everybody that "stamp collecting is a waste of time", then they aren't that different from stamp collectors - they also have a hobby, although a different one.

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H Einstein was an atheist ?

Apparently not.

In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.

I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"—cannot bear the music of the spheres. The Wonder of nature does not become smaller because one cannot measure it by the standards of human moral and human aims.

He was a strange guy, cannot be understood.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Let's see... if those people have a hobby of telling everybody that "stamp collecting is a waste of time", then they aren't that different from stamp collectors - they also have a hobby, although a different one.

But the hobby is not stamp collecting, ergo they are not stamp collectors, you're moving the goalposts here.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Let's see... if those people have a hobby of telling everybody that "stamp collecting is a waste of time", then...

That's a big IF.

Also, the logical extension of this argument is that being a closeted atheist would not be equivalent to having a religion, but being an outspoken one would be.

Originally Posted by dugan That's a big IF. Also, the logical extension of this argument is that being a closeted atheist would not be equivalent to having a religion, but being an outspoken one would be.

No, that's not the logical extension, because the argument was whether criticizing stamp collectors makes you a stamp collector, not whether it makes you a hobbyist. As I said, that argument just moved the goalposts.

Found a collection of Einstein quotes. Doesn't sound like an atheist to me. Probably more inclined to mystical side of religion, rather than orthodox organised religion.

Originally Posted by SL00b But the hobby is not stamp collecting, ergo they are not stamp collectors, you're moving the goalposts here.

If it isn't stamps it's not a hobby!

I'm an aphilatelist, I don't believe in stamp collectors.

Originally Posted by SL00b But the hobby is not stamp collecting, ergo they are not stamp collectors, you're moving the goalposts here.

It looks like stamp collection example isn't suitable for the discussion (frankly, looks like a strawman to me...).

Regarding real-world people. There are two possible scenarios:

• Type-A. An atheist who doesn't concentrate on "not believing in a god" too much.
• Type-B. An atheist who jumps at any opportunity to tell people that "there is no god", asserts that he(she?) is an atheist frequently, is a member of some kind of atheistic club (social network group, or whatever), have some kind of well-known figure(Dawkins?) whose opinion he(she?) shares and probably secretly believe that being an atheist somehow makes him better.

Type-A cannot be called religious, but to an observer Type-B is indistinguishable from average religious fanatic, plus there are emerging elements similar to organized religion. If you don't want other people to think that atheism is religion, IMO, you should get rid of all the Type-Bs.

Also, it looks like the thread is going in the wrong direction. My original point was that atheism and religion are not mutually exclusive, so whether atheism is religion or not is completely irrelevant.