The Faith & Religion mega Thread

BrianL and I can't watch the actual shows. It's only available to the US - unless we want to mess about with proxies, of course. Question for USians: how many atheist representatives do you have in Government? (I know of just one) and consider the rhetoric that all candidates come out with: count how many times God, Jesus, Bible or Christianity (or their own version of the Xtian faith) is raised.

Originally Posted by XavierP BrianL and I can't watch the actual shows. It's only available to the US - unless we want to mess about with proxies, of course. Question for USians: how many atheist representatives do you have in Government? (I know of just one) and consider the rhetoric that all candidates come out with: count how many times God, Jesus, Bible or Christianity (or their own version of the Xtian faith) is raised.

Really is unfortunate, since The Daily Show is the only thing left to counter all the stupidity that is so prevalent in the media here. (Particularly fox).

As far as any atheist rep. in our government? HA, thats unlikely. Remember, here in the States, if you don't affirm your beliefs in the Christian-Judeo religion, or allude to it, or whatever, then essentially you have no chance in ever entering into politics, or going very far. Remember, inaugurations here always takes place by placing one's left hand ON the Bible, and in the sentences of 'swearing to do good in office' or whatever the oath is for public servants, in the end it is always followed by 'So help me God' or whatever.

The word 'God' in every aspect of government here is quite intertwined with the rest of the language in Congress/Senate/etc, no matter how much they like to lie to the rest of the non religious, that they promise to keep state and church separate. It is a sham, a facade, nothing more.

Yes, I am that pessimistic.

Our politicians won't affirm their Christian beliefs too strongly, if they have any, probably for fear of losing Moslem votes. The only one I can think of is Ann Widdecombe, who's "come out" as a devout Roman Catholic.

Originally Posted by entz personally speaking , i find that totally irrelevant as every living creature already is indeed a machine and has always been , the only difference to computers is that animals such as the homo sapiens use proteins and biochemistry instead of solid state semi-conductors ..

And to think I friended you...thanks for giving me more cold and heartless reductionist bull$#!7 to think about...*shakes head*

Not ignored, but consider that a stern warning.

I knew I should never have posted in this thread...I was practically asking for it.

Originally Posted by brianL Our politicians won't affirm their Christian beliefs too strongly, if they have any, probably for fear of losing Moslem votes. The only one I can think of is Ann Widdecombe, who's "come out" as a devout Roman Catholic.

Thats impressive, especially since she is a Catholic since I would have figured most politicians would be Protestant/Church of England. Then again, Tony Blair did go to the Catholic side.

Though I am pretty sure that the Royal Family is strictly Protestant/Church of England.

Widdecombe switched to the Catholics over the issue of having women as vicars in the Church of England - she was against it, when women were allowed to be vicars she switched to the Catholics. Blair didn't come out as a Catholic until after his second election victory (if memory serves). IIRC, a Catholic cannot marry the heir to the throne - something Blair had planned to fix...

In the UK, religion in terms of political candidacy is a (mostly) non-issue. Though, in the recent election, it seems a number of candidates were sponsored by Christian groups. None of which, thankfully, have any of the power of The Family in the US.

Originally Posted by XavierP Have you listened to your elected representatives/people trying for election? When you do, substitute "Allah/Mohammed" for "God/Jesus" and change "Bible" for "Koran" and see if there is any real difference in the rhetoric between the firebrands of the Middle East and the firebrands of Middle America.

Well you're absolutely true regarding the correlation between these 2 types of pinheads , as a person who lives in the Middle East i can confirm that , btw i was shocked to learn about JebusLand (thanks to the internetz! )

it's no wonder that those pinheads are making business together , remember bush and the saudis??

btw are you subbed to coughlan666 on youtube ?

Originally Posted by XavierP; Widdecombe switched to the Catholics over the issue of having women as vicars in the Church of England - she was against it, when women were allowed to be vicars she switched to the Catholics.

Yeah i've seen her attitude on the program , "is the catholic church a force for good" with steven fry and christopher hitchens on the rational side and Widdecombe plus a catholic cardinal on the other...

the confrontation was epic pwnage i'd say 10 to 0 for atheism , it just demonstrated the hypocrisy , amorality , hatred and self deception that is christianity (specifically catholicism) and religion in general

And to think I friended you...thanks for giving me more cold and heartless reductionist bull$#!7 to think about...*shakes head* Not ignored, but consider that a stern warning. I knew I should never have posted in this thread...I was practically asking for it.

ehm , the reductionist "bullshit" as you called it is better known as Occam's Razor i.e the philosophical concept that the shortest and most plausible answer should be chosen in contrast to unwieldy explanations such as "god did it" which stands on very thin ice...etc

Well , i really can't put it any nicer than saying , that i feel sorry for you having such an attitude , i'm referring to your highly emotional reaction regarding the matter....

i'm wondering why so serious and uptight about it ? i mean there is really really no evidence for spirits/souls and whatnot..

but let me tell you a personal experience , there was a day many years ago when i had the belief that the mind "transcends" the body and that amazing things like astral projection could be reality (and lots of other crazy shit that i was fantasizing about)..

to put a long story short , it turned all out to be a form of delusion caused by wishful thinking , depression , anxiety and the lack of understanding of the scientific method and that anecdotal accounts of ehm "leaving ones body" was either fabricated or the result of self deception.

gladly , these times are long over .... and i've realized what the world really is all about, not that i understand everything but enough to cut right through superstition , esoteric and/or mambo jambo of any kind...

it's about being skeptical , if something appears to you as being real just because it "feels" good then chances are that it's likely false!

Regards MrCode

to put a long story short , it turned all out to be a form of delusion caused by wishful thinking , depression , anxiety and the lack of understanding of the scientific method and that anecdotal accounts of ehm "leaving ones body" was either fabricated or the result of self deception.

Thanks for runing my day.

Ignored and un-friended.

ehm , the reductionist "bullshit" as you called it is better known as Occam's Razor i.e the philosophical concept that the shortest and most plausible answer should be chosen in contrast to unwieldy explanations such as "god did it" which stands on very thin ice...etc

Yawn, here we go again. Occam's razor is reductionist. If only because it is constantly being branded about by all those atheists whose self-claimed brilliance does not prevent them from quoting the theory only in part (the part that fits them best - not to mention that spelling the man's name appears to be a problem in its own right):

For nothing ought to be posited without a reason given, unless it is self-evident or known by experience or proved by the authority of Sacred Scripture.”

What Ockham was saying, in short, was nothing less than what Wittgenstein stated six centuries later: God can neither be proved nor disproved, which only proves the limitations of the scientific method, not the non-existence of God. Ironically, Ockham's theory was meant as a blow at the theories of St Thomas Aquinas, who had worked hard to introduce logic into theology. In short, if anyone was opposed to science as an arbiter of faith (not to science-as-science), it was Ockham.

Christian; specifically Christian
i.e. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for my(everyone's) sins
and that he rose from the grave and will also be coming back soon.

Actually; I find it interesting when people say they don't believe in God
as I have never not believed.
To me it is extremely evident, and for someone to say He doesn't exist
is like telling me the sun isn't real...
just my 2 cents

Just so I can make something clear:

I'm not Christian, nor am I atheist, nor am I a reductionist/determinist/whatever. To be quite honest, I don't know what my faiths/beliefs are, and that is why I'm going through this emotional crap. All I know is that I would like to believe that there is more to existence than meets the eye. Any alternative depresses me. I would probably be labeled as "just another emo teen" by the general public, but I'm not so sure if I'd really fit that stereotype. Besides, I hate stereotypes anyway...

Also, restoring my sig for good measure. I tend to replace it with existential crap when I'm in a bad mood.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by jay73 opposed to science as an arbiter of faith (not to science-as-science)

Yes! This is the kind of thing that bugs me. I'm not opposed to scientific research, but when people start telling me things like "there is no "you", there is only matter" (or something along those lines), that's when I start getting angry.

Have you ever studied creationism?
satanism?
wicca?
golden dawn?
necronomicon?
bible?

I do think God does or did exist but do not believe anything else.

Originally Posted by linus72 Have you ever studied creationism?

I believe that evolution is a real thing, but I just would like to believe that there are some traits (mostly mental/emotional) that aren't strictly determined by genetic makeup.

necronomicon?

??? No idea what that is...off to Wikipedia I go, I guess. Or maybe not, considering this is also on there.

Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, I've stopped trusting Wikipedia for certain things. I'll still use it for technical info, but even then I have to consciously resist the urge to start clicking on links in the article that go to pages about the root concepts of what I'm reading...

For example, I'll look up something like "Universal Serial Bus", and then I'd click on something like "computing", and then I'd click on something like "deterministic finite-state machine", which leads to "determinism", which leads to "free will", and so on...in other words, I do this a lot.

EDIT: Really, I'm not sure if I even *want* to label myself. Labels are often used to criticize and discriminate, and I really don't want to have that start happening: "Oh, he's a <insert religion/spiritual/philosophical belief label here>, they're such idiots." I am who I am.

I have a Necronomicon, I sometimes summon small imps to mess with my neighbor's dogs Sometimes, I summon a Balrog (this often requires several large sacrifices, like a herd of cattle), and sometimes it breaks free of my control ... then things get messy. Of course, there's also the standard "army of darkness" spell, but zombies smell so bad, I can't stand the smell.