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View Poll Results: UNIX is better than WINDOWS
what?HELLO.i am UNIX. the best! 605 68.52%
whooa, wait a minute. Windows is BETTER than UNIX 48 5.44%
hoo-boy..i don't like both. 64 7.25%
errr...i don't know, what is UNIX afterall? 11 1.25%
windows?never heard of it... 155 17.55%
Voters: 883. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-18-2010, 07:42 PM   #3451
exvor
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I think the reason for this has to do with printers esp the old printers that used typewriter like stuff to print out. Carriage return and line feed would indeed still mean 2 different things when communicating to these type printer.

Its a function of the ASCII set of character codes which is a standard and has nothing to do with Microsoft or dos.

Ahhh hah I find it on a wiki page
Quote:
In computing, the carriage return (CR) is one of the control characters in ASCII code, Unicode or EBCDIC that commands a printer or other sort of display to move the position of the cursor to the first position on the same line. It was mostly used along with line feed, a move to the next line, while carriage return precedes line feed to indicate a new line. The term derives from the above usage, as early printers often closely resembled typewriters; this control character would activate a physical carriage-return mechanism.

On printers, teletypes, and computer terminals that were not capable of displaying graphics, the carriage return was used without moving to the next line to allow characters to be placed on top of existing characters to produce character graphics, underlines, and crossed out text.

Many computer programs use the carriage return character, alone or with a line feed, to signal the end of a line of text, but other characters are also used for this function (see newline); others use it only for a paragraph break (a hard return). Some standards which introduce their own representations for line and paragraph control (for example HTML) treat carriage return and line feed as whitespace.

In ASCII and Unicode, the character code decimal 13 (or hexadecimal 0D) is defined to be carriage return, it may also be seen as control+M or ^M. In the C programming language and many other languages influenced by it, \r denotes this character.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_return

Last edited by exvor; 05-18-2010 at 07:44 PM. Reason: adding info
 
Old 05-19-2010, 08:33 AM   #3452
cantab
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CRLF vs LF for newlines is just a historical accident really. Any decent program ought to support both, which on reading can be done by simply treating LF as newline and ignoring CR. I think Notepad is about the only program that doesn't support both standards.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 01:22 PM   #3453
mattvdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv502 View Post
It is impossible to create a custom kernel for each computer and its hardware. If you want this type of kernel, you have to do it yourself. All the kernel developers can do is try to include much modules as possible to support the hardware it detects.

In my 15 years of using linux/unix, I compiled the kernel only 5 times. FreeBSD only twice. BTW, I don't know every aspect of the linux .config file. It is a complex file. I add or remove only the things I know, the rest stays as is.

As for tools, you can get information about your hardware using the lspci command with the -v or -vv options. Not only will it list the hardware, it will list the chipsets, modules and driver used for that hardware.
I just think that the distros should download&install the proper drivers AS PART of the initial installation. Why can't the installer run various probes to detect your H/W? Or simply allow the users to choose which drivers from a list during the setup phase or allow for a USB key or CD as the source if not listed or preferred. And it should test the drivers and configuration before rebooting and applying the settings

I like starting from the console and building up my system (desktop manager/apps), but acquiring drivers and setting up the initial config should be apart of the installation process. Most users already know which drivers they require for their particular HW.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 01:26 PM   #3454
mattvdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv502 View Post
I don't get you, matt. Since March, you've been ranting on how linux is not to your standards as a desktop and that window$ XP is the only way to go. Yet, you are still trying to use linux.

What gives???

PS: Go to http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/...#Pacman-Mirror and scroll down
until you see Step 2: Update, Sync, and Upgrade the system with pacman.
Simple--I'm a nerd and I love technology. I know what I like, but I tend to stray and test out other OSs. I like Linux, but I'd be lost without reliable XP up and running to search forums/articles.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 01:38 PM   #3455
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
Simple--I'm a nerd and I love technology. I know what I like, but I tend to stray and test out other OSs. I like Linux, but I'd be lost without reliable XP up and running to search forums/articles.
So you never got Linux up and running to the point you can open a web browser in it?
 
Old 05-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #3456
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
I like starting from the console and building up my system (desktop manager/apps), but acquiring drivers and setting up the initial config should be apart of the installation process. Most users already know which drivers they require for their particular HW.
Why are you asking stuff of Linux that your dearly beloved
XP can't do? On every single computer that I had to install
Windows I had to rely on my trusty Linux to get the latest
drivers for networking and graphics. 640x480x256 w/o network
isn't very usable.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 05-19-2010, 02:32 PM   #3457
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster View Post
Why are you asking stuff of Linux that your dearly beloved
XP can't do? On every single computer that I had to install
Windows I had to rely on my trusty Linux to get the latest
drivers for networking and graphics. 640x480x256 w/o network
isn't very usable.
Before I used Linux I used Windows 7 Beta, and it automatically installed drivers for all the hardware I had.

And it worked on different computers, too.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 02:52 PM   #3458
mattvdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
So you never got Linux up and running to the point you can open a web browser in it?
I should have mentioned that I was referring to the more technical distros like arch/gentoo/centos type installations. Obviously with ubuntu/mandrake type distros this isn't an issue.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 02:55 PM   #3459
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
I should have mentioned that I was referring to the more technical distros like arch/gentoo/centos type installations. Obviously with ubuntu/mandrake type distros this isn't an issue.
So you never got Arch to work?

And I thought that CentOS installs with a GUI by default.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 02:57 PM   #3460
mattvdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster View Post
Why are you asking stuff of Linux that your dearly beloved
XP can't do? On every single computer that I had to install
Windows I had to rely on my trusty Linux to get the latest
drivers for networking and graphics. 640x480x256 w/o network
isn't very usable.



Cheers,
Tink
I just wanted to see if arch truly is more robust than XP. And with XP you're generally supposed to have the NIC drivers ready before the install. But if it's Intel based, it should detect/install.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 03:06 PM   #3461
mattvdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
So you never got Arch to work?

And I thought that CentOS installs with a GUI by default.
Well I fixed the servers part in the pacman.conf file, so it can connect to the servers properly, but I tried: pacman -S compiz-fusion-kde, which is supposed to grab just about everything necessary, but I get a $DISPLAY is not set error. So I can use arch at the root, but GUI isn't working yet. still stuck.

what is the proper installation procedure in terms of which apps to install first? i.e. what pacman commands do i run after the -Syu update? I basically just want openbox w/ compizfusion.

Last edited by mattvdh; 05-19-2010 at 03:14 PM.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 03:18 PM   #3462
MTK358
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You have to install Xorg, video drivers, keyboard drivers, and mouse drivers before even thinking of installing desktop environments.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/...p_2:_Install_X

This should get you started:

Code:
pacman -S libgl xorg mesa xf86-video-vesa hal xf86-input-evdev xf86-input-mouse xf86-input-keyboard
Then edit /etc/rc.conf to include hal in the DAEMONS list (found near the bottom). That will cause HAL to start automatically at boot-up. Then run this command as root:

Code:
/etc/rc.d/hal start
And to test with the TWM window manager that comes with X.org, run this command:

Code:
xinit /usr/bin/twm
And WTF do you mean "openbox w/ compizfusion"? Both are window managers. You can't somehow run two window managers at once.

If you have Openbox you can't have Compiz Fusion and vice versa.

Last edited by MTK358; 05-19-2010 at 03:26 PM.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 04:07 PM   #3463
dv502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
I just think that the distros should download&install the proper drivers AS PART of the initial installation. Why can't the installer run various probes to detect your H/W?
You could try Mandriva 2010. Mandriva 2010 has a feature to probe unused hardware during the installation process and not to install packages for those unused devices.

For example, if you don't use wireless ethernet, Mandriva will detect this unused hardware and not install any packages for it nor load its modules.

PS: The problem you have with linux is that you are trying to use linux with the mindset of window$. If you think that way, you will failed at using linux.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 04:38 PM   #3464
dv502
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@ mattvdh

Did you read the Arch beginners guide prior to installing Arch? Or did you just went into Arch blindly not knowing what to expect.

Last edited by dv502; 05-19-2010 at 04:56 PM.
 
Old 05-19-2010, 04:39 PM   #3465
smeezekitty
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I suggest against arch especially for a windows user.
 
  


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