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But that choice is not necessarily a good thing. When the user doesn't understand the choice, they end up bewildered. Distros help, by aggregating the myriad choices into one. But then that one choice becomes more complex. People generally need advice on which distro to choose.
<snip>
Yes, users do need some guidance but the choice(s) are there. Everything requires you to gain some understanding in order to have knowledge about a subject. Things build on each other as we progress through our experiences. Even the newbie can find the power switch eventually, if not then the computer is mute.
I said this a long time ago in other trends in the past.
Linux is not for everyone.
I use linux and the BSDs because I'm not in the average joe user club.
I'm in the power user club.
Distros like ubuntu and its variants focus their distro on the average joe user, but the average joe user also needs to learn to step up their level a little because sometimes ubuntu or other distro may ask a user to open a terminal and type commands to fix something.
If the average joe user is not willing to do this, their usage of linux will be frustrating and thus they resort to complaining rather than learning.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358
Still what's funny is that mattvdh says he's a sysadmin
I'm still waiting to see some evidence of that. He's realised he's stepped into a minefield. All he can do now is hop about while blundering into the next 'smack-down'
I am a musician and audio engineer, so if you'd like any input/opinions about preferred environment layout and what audio engineers look for in an OS and SAC, give me a PM.
Actually that might explain some of it. Sound in Linux is a confusing mess, and while you can do some very powerful things with it it often seems overcomplicated.
Still what's funny is that mattvdh says he's a sysadmin, not an "average joe user".
Based on the obvious lack of research he does before posting his absurd assumptions, he probably think a sysadmin is anyone who logs into their personal WinXP PC as Administrator.
I'll believe that he's a sysadmin when I believe that Micro$oft has ever been or will be innovative.
'X' has been around for a long time. You should look at this link to get some basic understanding and knowledge. As for each GNU/Linux implementation of a DE for the desktop. That is basically KDE, XFCE or even GNOME. Sure you can have different choices for window managers but the choice of X is limited.
Now if you feel the M$ desktop is so great then why does 'X' in 1984 surpass the M$ Win desktop? Implementation of 'X' is on several environments but M$ Win must be on it's own restrictive environment. 'X' continues to improve and provide the best fit GUI for multiple environments.
So your opinion as to the GUI is moot since the choice of the X environment which surpasses the M$ Win Desktop as the best fit for a GUI for UNIX, GNU/Linux or Solaris to name just a few. The utility of 'X' will be and still be the best fit for a universal GUI for whomever wants to implement. And with FOSS or FLOSS the user has a choice of application(s) that are not locked in by a single corporation but allow free choice as to how the user can implement with a open source license.
When a knowledgeable user doesn't need to have a GUI in the way that same user can implement or design a tool to provide the means to a solution via the command line. Try that without addition to the toolbox for a M$ environment. 'Batch' now that's a joke as compared to the many shell choices on a UNIX/GNU/Linux with available tools.
Another troll post with poor representation and lack of experience or knowledge. You continue to amaze me as to the lack of understanding for either M$ or other OS that you present as to be knowledgeable about. Your lack of knowledge for how M$ has evolved or the basic history of computing itself should indicate to others the basis of your replies or posts. Mix in 'X', GNU/Linux and your total lack of understanding then we have what I call 'Hog Wash'.
I think you missed the comparison. I wasn't comparing xwindow/x11 to the Windows GUI, I was comparing KDE & GNOME which clearly have copied many features that windows users would be accustomed to so the switch is easier (I suppose). Again another prime example of a user who choses to argue the user (by troll labeling and personal attacks) rather than providing solid counter points.
I still haven't seen any distros mentioned that would give me a more robust user experience than XP.
It has very common hardware, so it should work with just about any OS.
And I basically just let the installers do the work and keep the settings at their defaults after the installations. Distros I've installed for a few months at a time and seriously tried out: suse, redhat, arch, gentoo, puppy, ubuntu (ugh), all of the 'studio' /music production related distros (which were all crap), fedora, mandriva, debian, slackware, centos, and freebsd. My favorite was definitely debian because of the apt-get/aptitude app which was very cool. Freebsd was also very nice.
I got in to debian for about 4-5months and tried to use it as my main OS, but I kept getting annoyed with the apps failing on me or not installing properly, so I went back to trusty old xp.
In all honesty, OS X is probably the best OS in the world for end users, but you have to bend over to pay their huge price tags on hardware I can now buy at half the price. And I can setup a hackintosh now so there's really no point in buying a mac.
I said this a long time ago in other trends in the past.
Linux is not for everyone.
I use linux and the BSDs because I'm not in the average joe user club.
I'm in the power user club.
Distros like ubuntu and its variants focus their distro on the average joe user, but the average joe user also needs to learn to step up their level a little because sometimes ubuntu or other distro may ask a user to open a terminal and type commands to fix something.
If the average joe user is not willing to do this, their usage of linux will be frustrating and thus they resort to complaining rather than learning.
Self-proclaiming yourself to be part of a "power user" club is really just ego-stroking. So you think that ANY Windows user is simply a regular joe type user? That's ridiculous. Your choice of OS doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about computers or definitely make you any more productive of efficient in your work.
Try setting up a DHCP server in 2003 vs ANY linux server distro and then I'll be more than happy to accept your apology.
Using Linux may give you the feeling of your tasks being more 'technical' when in fact the extra labor just gives the user a sense of accomplishment, but in reality they haven't really accomplished anymore than a mac or windows user.
Linux inspires this type of false intelligence or false accomplishments it seems, because the user thinks they are in this 'power user' club that prefers to complicate everything 10x over. Complicating things doesn't make you any more productive!
Linux belongs in your basement closet, not on your desktop.
Based on the obvious lack of research he does before posting his absurd assumptions, he probably think a sysadmin is anyone who logs into their personal WinXP PC as Administrator.
I'll believe that he's a sysadmin when I believe that Micro$oft has ever been or will be innovative.
it says below your user name that you're using a winbox.
I think you missed the comparison. I wasn't comparing xwindow/x11 to the Windows GUI, I was comparing KDE & GNOME which clearly have copied many features that windows users would be accustomed to so the switch is easier (I suppose). Again another prime example of a user who choses to argue the user (by troll labeling and personal attacks) rather than providing solid counter points.
Here is excellent counter point. Windows 95 GUI was largely stolen from Apple Mac and NeXT. And if you want to praise one person for GUI vision and development that is Steve Jobs.
Another point clear from that text is that rise of the Windows (if we put aside obligatory fee to Microsoft for each Intel CPU sold) was the truly remarkable rise of the MS Word and MS Excel applications. They are the ones that cleared the way for Windows popularity over the other contenders, and actually VERY large number of innovations first came from MS Office development team and after that was adopted by Windows development team.
Self-proclaiming yourself to be part of a "power user" club is really just ego-stroking. So you think that ANY Windows user is simply a regular joe type user? That's ridiculous. Your choice of OS doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about computers or definitely make you any more productive of efficient in your work.
There's a difference between you and me, I've used linux and the BSDs for 15 years.
You learn a lot of stuff over the years. I am very, very productive in linux. And, I'm not talking simple stuff like email and surfing the web.
Just because you struggle with linux doesn't mean everybody struggles the same as you.
BTW, linux is being used in hollywood as I mentioned a long time ago in the thread.
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Every time I look back at this thread, I'm amazed to see mattvdh still trolling along. Only 7 posts credited, but he must have 50 or more on this thread. I wonder if maybe he is actually a cabal of several MicroSoft PR weenies sharing the same user name.
[Edit: And then I realized that the linuxquestions.org search would give me the count. As of this moment, mattvdh has 112 posts on this thread. Amazing.]
Last edited by choogendyk; 05-08-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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I wonder if maybe he is actually a cabal of several MicroSoft PR weenies sharing the same user name. 
