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Poll: UNIX is better than WINDOWS
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UNIX is better than WINDOWS

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The nominees are:

what?HELLO.i am UNIX. the best!
whooa, wait a minute. Windows is BETTER than UNIX
hoo-boy..i don't like both.
errr...i don't know, what is UNIX afterall?
windows?never heard of it...

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Old 06-14-2006, 11:58 AM   #151
prozac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
You did make several unfounded allegations against me.
i told you i am not making allegations instead i suggest you take those as suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
You also launched a very personal anmd very hurtful attack on my sanity.
if something i spoke here hurt your sanity, i am sorry. though i wanted to make you feel sorry i never wanted to hurt your sanity.

Quote:
Now can we please move on! If people continue to behave in this manner, then can a moderator please lock this thread IMMEDIATELY.
i feel you are again losing your attitude here! keep cool man!
 
Old 06-14-2006, 01:22 PM   #152
truthfatal
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[IBtL]... Stop flaming eachother. Please. I know you think you're just being reasonable and trying to convey a message, but stop anyways. It just ends up provoking more flamey words.

I enjoy that, for me, Linux required less setup time after my initial install. Istall a graphics driver and change one line in my xorg.conf as opposed to scouring OEM disks and the internet for every scrap of hardware in my machine.
I enjoy that My Linux machine can run for days or even weeks without crashing. My windows machine is nearly unuseable after a week running.
I enjoy that I know what goes into my Linux box. I can upgrade what I want, when I want.
with Windows automatic updates have on more than one occasion forced me to re-install all of those drivers I had to search for after the first install.
I don't like that Hardware and software manufacturers tend to ignore my OS of choice, but I can deal with it.
I don't like that different linuxes keep files in different places though I can understand the reasons (still, /media can go burn!)

Windows may be a fine OS for some folks, but for me it requires way too much manual configuration, too many reboots, and causes far too much irritation.

Last edited by truthfatal; 06-14-2006 at 01:24 PM.
 
Old 06-14-2006, 04:59 PM   #153
LzW-x
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What's wrong with windows?

You use Linux for this and that, here and there... But if you had to use windows, what features to you wish it had? I'll start with a couple of Windows deficiencies that drive me crazy!

No Package Manager

Where is the bleeping package manager? It aint there!!! The Add/Remove programs control panel applete is similar but only works for stuff on the windows cd and it does not even show half that unless you edit the sysoc.inf file! It would be great in windows to just pick tons of stuff, come back a few hours later and it's all magically downloaded/installed like in linux!

Running internet as Adminstrator

You don't have to run internet programs as Administrator, you can log out and run them as guest! But that's not the way windows was designed to be used because then you can't do much else with your computer until you log back in as adminstrator... So everyone just runs the internet as administrator in windows!!! The upcomming Windows Vista is said to fix that but we'll see if it really does or not in 2007.
 
Old 06-14-2006, 05:18 PM   #154
taylor_venable
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Default UI Is Not Configurable

I use FVWM 2.5.16 and I've tweaked many settings by hand. In Windows, you're stuck with what they give you. Can you remap function keys to manage window focus / iconification? Nope. Can you change what mouse buttons do what on a window frame, or change what buttons appear in the title bar? Nope. Virtual desktops? Nope. Changing the appearance of windows? ... Limited; some hacks exist.

Filesystem Has Dumb Features / Default Layout Is Messed Up

Filesystem case insensitivity is just plain wrong: 'A' is not the same as 'a'. Also, spaces in file names cause problems on the command line. Who wants to have to quote "Program Files"? And another thing: drive letters. They make filesystem mounts non-transparent. You can't have network-shared program files in "C:\Program Files" or network-shared pictures in "My Pictures"; they have to be in something like "O:\Program Files" or "Z:\My Pictures" which reduces flexibility.

There are many (many) more, but these two are off the top of my head.
 
Old 06-14-2006, 05:37 PM   #155
Mega Man X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor_venable
Default UI Is Not Configurable

I use FVWM 2.5.16 and I've tweaked many settings by hand. In Windows, you're stuck with what they give you. Can you remap function keys to manage window focus / iconification? Nope. Can you change what mouse buttons do what on a window frame, or change what buttons appear in the title bar? Nope. Virtual desktops? Nope. Changing the appearance of windows? ... Limited; some hacks exist.
...
With all due respect... Windows interface can be very well customized. Look at some of my shots:

http://goto.glocalnet.net/torch/scre.../xp_osx/01.png

http://goto.glocalnet.net/torch/scre.../xp_osx/02.png

http://goto.glocalnet.net/torch/scre...p/winxp_01.png

I would say that maybe, some WM/DE in Linux can be more customized than WinXP, but I would not say that it is limited... You can download Virtual Desktops right here, directly from Microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...powertoys.mspx

It is called Virtual Desktop Manager. If you have a Nvidia card, you can also create Virtual Desktops with it, assuming that you are using the Nvidia drivers ^_^
 
Old 06-14-2006, 05:43 PM   #156
XavierP
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Windows vs Linux?? In it's own thread, surely not. Surely a wonderful benevolent mod would have created a thread for this sort of thing? And called it "The All New Linux vs Windows MegaSuperThread". Oh look, I did.

I have now merged this thread into that thread.
 
Old 06-14-2006, 08:03 PM   #157
taylor_venable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man X
With all due respect... Windows interface can be very well customized.
Thank you for that introduction; I also mean no disrespect to you, although my experience does not agree with yours.

I guess I probably should have said "not easily configurable". Lestaways I could not figure out how to do things like mapping F7 to lower the current window or using focus-follows-mouse. And as far as window look and decoration goes, all I could ever find was stuff like Stardock WindowsBlinds, or hacks on binary files that would enable theming. (Not to knock on hacking, but modifying key binary components of an (in my experience) already fragile system is not my idea of a good time. )

I can't tell how yours work from an interactive standpoint, but they look very well-done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man X
You can download Virtual Desktops right here, directly from Microsoft:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...powertoys.mspx

It is called Virtual Desktop Manager. If you have a Nvidia card, you can also create Virtual Desktops with it, assuming that you are using the Nvidia drivers ^_^
Yeah; I tried that a couple years ago. Perchance it has improved (so I should hope) but back then it did not work well for me. But this functionality is not a feature of the GUI shell that MSFT provides in Windows by default, which is why I discounted it. The qualifier in the heading says "default". But thanks for pointing this out, in the interests of full disclosure and a fair debate, since I (somewhat intentionally) failed to mention it. I have to say, though, that I don't quite understand why a graphics driver includes window management features.
 
Old 06-15-2006, 07:34 AM   #158
hand of fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor_venable
I guess I probably should have said "not easily configurable".
Different people find different things "easy".

For example, many many people would consider having to edit raw config files by hand difficult, while others find working directly with config files more intuitive than working through a graphical dialog system. That's really down to personal preference.
 
Old 06-15-2006, 08:53 AM   #159
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
Different people find different things "easy".
Precisely.

From my perspective, Windows XP has an illogical and inconsistent interface, and can be a real biotch to configure.

Linux has a consistent layout. It gives me full control and ease of use.

But that's me.
 
Old 06-15-2006, 11:49 AM   #160
aysiu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
Different people find different things "easy".

For example, many many people would consider having to edit raw config files by hand difficult, while others find working directly with config files more intuitive than working through a graphical dialog system. That's really down to personal preference.
Can someone then explain to me how "easily" to do the following in Windows?

1. Change the theme in Windows to something other than Classic or Luna (or the olive or silver versions of Luna) without using Windowblinds (since Windowblinds requires you to either pay for it or put up with its nagware asking you to pay for it)?

2. Change the Start Menu in Windows to something else.

These are fairly easy to figure out in Gnome.

1. Drag and drop a theme file from http://www.gnome-look.org to the Theme Manager window.
2. Through a search for image files, find the one that's the Gnome logo, and replace it with your own logo.
 
Old 06-15-2006, 11:55 AM   #161
prozac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
From my perspective, Windows XP has an illogical and inconsistent interface, and can be a real biotch to configure.
not to forget the useless and mostly misleading error msgs.
 
Old 06-17-2006, 01:46 AM   #162
wraithe
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hmm, fuel for a fire....
can you play ms Train simulator on linux, no you cant without using an emulator...
why cant linux use all of windows apps just like windows uses them...

..Pretty pointless isnt it...windows has its features just like linux....
configurability in linux may seem great for some of us but can be quite daunting for others...windows is very simple in its make up but for the likes of us that want security and to be able to launch a thousand app's at once, well its no good...i like using linux but lately have started to learn windows and have enjoyed some good times with it...but where windows falls down is support, people there is lots, but really, why pay some ms expert to come and fix something when in actual fact there skill base is very lacking...i seem to get asked to fix pc's that would be ok if the tech knew what he was doing in the first place...
now my winbox has crashed a couple of times but when you consider what was happening at the time, well you would blame me too...i try to use win like i use linux and yeh it dont work...but otherwise it works well...try installing your win os with some good reliable protection and no short cuts...it may survive a bit of use then...as for linux well, what can i say, we are on a linux forum, and if it wasnt so good for my use then i wouldnt be using it...
 
Old 06-17-2006, 01:47 PM   #163
slackhack
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i just installed FC5 on my sister's computer this week, after she got tired of all the worms and spyware and asked me to install "that linux thing you were talking about that doesn't get viruses or worms." not to mention all the antivirus and anti-malware tools you constantly have to run and update, sucking up system resources, and which often cost plenty because the free ones all suck. she was telling me of her friend who got so infected from some yahoo groups worm that she finally had to go out and buy some expensive norton suite to protect from all the malware, and after paying all that money, it didn't even detect anything. she ended up having to go to the norton web thing anyway. what a total scam.

meanwhile, FC5 installed without a hitch, all the configuration was done through menus in gnome (install printer, turn off services, update software, etc.), it comes stock with a 2.6.x kernel, and even after only a few days, she says it's as easy to use if not easier than windows, and nicer too. the main thing is just getting used to all the different programs. and that's a person who has never even *seen* linux, who has only used windows her entire life, both at work and at home.

so in my opinion, from what i have seen with my own eyes, it is totally, 100% obvious that all the "linux is too hard, it's no good for newbies, it *requires* too much configuration," is total FUD bull. the system i installed actually *required* NO configuration at all. network, sound, usb -- everything worked out of the box, no searching the web for drivers like with windows. the printer installed in 2 seconds through the menu. the only "configuration" i did was to turn off services that weren't needed, but which weren't really causing any harm. *unlike* windows, which automatically runs services you don't need but which CAN cause harm, like the "messenger" service, the "run as" service, the service that allows hackers to change the registry, etc. good luck to the average newb turning those off - they don't even know they exist, let alone where to change them. i did have to change the FC runlevel from 3 to 5, but that is so minor, anyone could do it using nano.

so it's completely obvious, to me at least, that windows just seems "easier" because it comes pre-configured on store-bought computers and work computers, and therefore it's what people are used to. if it were the other way around, with linux coming pre-installed on every computer in the world and everyone used to the names of the open source apps, everyone would think linux is easier. and actually it is -- it's mostly only a matter of the program names that people are used to. and "configuring" linux from a basic install is no harder than configuring windows -- it's probably even easier since everything is very accessible through common sense menu items, not buried ten layers deep in obscure icons and nested option panels. windows being "easier" and "requiring" no configuration while linux "requires" all kinds of configuration is 100% pure marketing, and that's all it is.
 
Old 06-17-2006, 02:00 PM   #164
Nylex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackhack
so it's completely obvious, to me at least, that windows just seems "easier" because it comes pre-configured on store-bought computers and work computers, and therefore it's what people are used to.
Yep, totally agree. I don't understand how people don't understand that since they've been using Windows all their lives, using something else for the first time is going to be difficult. They just seem to expect everything to work like Windows :/.
 
Old 06-17-2006, 02:40 PM   #165
dalek
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I have ran into the same thing with my fiance. She has used my rig, Linux only here, and she hates it. Thing is, the reason she was using mine is because her windoze got infected and when she removed it, it died. People hate change but sometimes change can be a good thing. The next biggest thing is getting them to understand that Linux is far superior in a lot of ways. Just because you can download it for nothing doesn't mean it is worth nothing.

Me, I'm glad I picked Linux. I never had much use for windoze even when I was working on computers a long time ago. I actually quit when I saw windoze 3.1. I got so tired of installing it from floppies.

Linux, Gentoo for sure, may be harder in the beginning but it sure is worth it overall.

Later

 
  


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