Yes, but apt-get is good for finding software. Instead of surfing the internet, its all right there for you, plus you won't get any 'BS Software' which will destroy your vulnerable Windows system.

Yes, but MS's 3D flip IS useless, just a fancy alt-tab. However, the wobbly windows make it easier to move windows around your desktops, triggering transparent windows lets you see the window behind it, Free-wins lets you organize your windows on your desktop, ADD Helper helps you focus on one window, Zoom desktop makes text easier to read(in a far more user friendly and easy way then Window's magnifying glass), Expo lets you organize where your windows are on your desktop, Window Previews let you see a preview of your window(Yes, I know vista has them too), and Scale lets you switch windows with a mouse gesture.

Yeah, Windows is stable if you don't happen to get any of the 60,000 viruses(not to mention worms and rootkits) for Windows,(40 viruses for Linux). And of course, if your windows didn't come reinstalled with any annoying trial anti-virus software, you'll have to go to the web(instead of searching 'virus' in apt-get) and look for some legitament software, which, if it isn't spyware itself, you'll probably have to pay for. Then, you'll have to remove all the trial anti-virus, using Windows slow Add/Remove Programs.(Can't remove all programs, like IE)

OK... So, lets start by installing windows, that can take up to an hour, then, lets install all those drivers! OK... Where's the CD for the wireless card, ah here it is! OK... go to my Computer, put in the CD... Oops! My Computer froze, can't handle putting a CD in when the window is open, Ctrl+Alt+Delete, end task, yes, I'm sure I want to end it, Yes, I'm positive... It still hasn't ended the task, lets click it again... OK. Finally, My Computer is closed. Now, lets go back to it, and click on the CD. OK, here's the linksys software. Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Done. OK... I need the wireless Mouse and Keyboard options... go to www.logitech.com... wait, what's the long model number? OK, found it, Download drivers, and wait 15 minutes (make sure you don't click anything else!) OK. Downloaded, install, ok. Good, they are working. OK, go to Nvidia.com, download drivers, install, ok done. Wait, now for the printer. Where's the CD... OK, here it is... install drivers, connect to printer, done! Now, I have a fully functioning Windows System! Wait, I need to reboot to have all the drivers working! Reboot. So, my awesome Windows comes with:
-Notepad
-Clock
-Windows Media Player
-Windows Movie Maker
-Internet Explorer
-Paint
-MSN Messenger
Darn. I can't really do anything. OK... go buy MS Office for a few hundred bucks, install Firefox, install MS Office, install Google Earth, install Audacity, and install all my other programs. Phew! Now I can do something with my Windows.
Wait... I need to connect to my iPod. Install Quicktime and iTunes. Done! My Windows is ready to use.

Now ubuntu:
1. Install Ubuntu 7.10(At most 45 min.)
2. Boot
3. Wait, my wireless mouse and keyboard already work!
4. Hold on, it says it automatically connected me to my printer!
5. Go to Restricted Drivers, enable my Broadcom Firmware for Wireless Card*, and Nvidia/ATi Driver, click enable, it downloads drivers.
6. Reboot for X Drivers
7. Connect to Network with wireless network applet
8. Wait, it already has Rhythymbox to connect to my iPod! Wait, it already has Firefox and an Office Suite! Wait, I can install All my software through apt-get!
9. To install propietory software, download Automatix, and install
10. To run windows programs, install WINE, and click on the CD's .exe
*If you want to use ndiswrapper, install window-wireless-drivers, and put in your CD, and find the .inf file.

Tell me which took more effort. I know Linux can be harder to get working for some, but with most it works like that.

By Customization, I mean the simple ability to change your taskbars and applets, but also edit your theme, and Login. These simple tasks are impossible to do in Windows without 'BS Software'. Not to mention editing any of the code, Xorg.conf, sources, main menu, blacklist, and more.

Do this:
-open a PDF
-Open MS Word
-Open Calculator
-View a youtube video
-Open My Computer
-Open Solitaire
-browse to www.firefox.com, www.apple.com, www.linuxquestions.org, and www.amazon.com
-Copy a 1.6 GB Folder
-Open Control Panel, and change the background
-Open your email
Can you even do that in Windows?
Here's a screen shot of me doing all that in Linux(3.0 Ghz Pentium 4, 2 GB of RAM, 7200 HD speed, ATI X600 video card).
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/d...Screenshot.png
Plus, I'm using 3D effects, and listening to music. Look at the CPU meter on my taskbar at the bottom. What? only about 50% CPU usage, on a Dell 400 XPS thats 2 years old.
Oh yeah, and the 1.6 GB(3 ISOs) took 43 seconds(timed) to move. Tell me Linux isn't faster then Windows. (Plus, it has a faster start-up time)

of course I'm not flaming though.

Ah, ramble time has come round again. : D

But if we're going to ramble, I'll ramble along. And since we've had mostly unbalanced views, I'll work hard to follow suit.

First of all, it would seem to me that some people's Linux expertise is quite dubious. Going to Nvidia in order to download a driver ? Surely you must be aware that all the major distros have had an apt-get / yum function to do that for you? Yum install kmod-nvidia. There, done. You hate the command line? Fine, open up synaptic or Add/Remove software. Suse nowadays has something called one-click install. Click click, done. Solaris Express even comes with the drivers on the dvd... And quite a few of those distros will explicitly inform you that a restricted driver is available in case you didn't know yet.

Windows superior because it works with certain software? Ah yes, we know that Adobe products are really manufactured by Microsoft. : P I'm sure that they'd like to - in fact, they're working hard on it - but so far, nope. And yes, most Macromedia products run just fine on Linux thanks to Wine (although it's true that it could still get better).

Compiz-fusion useless? Maybe for now but we're moving into a era when most of our surroundings will be manipulated from computers. Far from being a simple toy, 3D is becoming vital. But of course, when that day comes, Microsoft will suddenly "invent" 3D too - and probably take a few patents to protect its IP. Sure, those will be useless because or prior art but, hey, it's always a nice stick to swing at the enterprise market. Ooh, no no, don't you dare consider Red Hat, what are you thinking, the lawyers, think of the lawyers!!

Windows stable? Yes, it's improving, it's been quite a while since I last saw a BSOD. I guess it's finally had enough of shooting itself through the head so now it just shoots its feet off. I happen to have a copy of XP64 and both of the service packs I downloaded ruined the .NET component. So you only lose an hour or so hunting the net for an explanation of some cryptic hex error message, removing .NET, booting into safe mode, doing some further cleaning, rebooting, downloading .NET, finally installing. And then an hour more praying to God it will never happen again. Well, apparently God doesn't like Microsoft... Fun!

Drivers. We all know that Vista is sooo much better. That's why I've seen so many people dumping their still fully functional printers, scanners, sound cards, etc. Sorry guys, you're not needed anymore. My new love's called Vista (for now) and she doesn't want me hanging out with you. Which makes me think of the time I spent nearly 200 Euros on a new ASUS mobo and another 200 on XP64 only to find that XP64 doesn't have an AHCI driver an that ASUS hasn't any plans of ever writing one themselves although the board is perfectly AHCI capable (as I found out after hacking the driver). Blame ASUS? Why, it works just fine under Linux.

And how is it that Linux is responsible for monkey coders? I rather doubt that the guys who still can't write standard HTML are Linux users. Not that it is much of an issue. I can't think of a single European site I have visited for the last year or so that was not compatible with firefox.

And printers... It's funny, I have an Epson too, but using XP64 means no useful drivers on the printer cd. I simply had to search my way through the Epson site only to come up with a few drivers that don't offer half the functionality of the 32 bit drivers. Not to mention the "user-friendly" install process or the sheer joy of having to go through a manual first. If anyone still believes that monkeys can't write: they write manuals (sort of).

And software installs... Being a Java developer, I get sick from the mere prospect of having to set up a Java environment on Windows. Here we go. First we visit Sun and we download the jdk installer and we install it, then we visit the eclipse site and we download eclipse and we install it and while we're at it, we also download mylyn and we install it, then we visit the apache site and we locate and we download tomcat and we locate and we download apache, and we downloaded struts and we download maven and we download them one at a time and we install them one at a time and oh yes, let's not forget to locate and download those two dozen commons packages now that we are downloading and installing anyway and to install them too, one by one. And, oh wait, now we still need hibernate and velocity and etc. and etc. So we go and we download those too and again we install them one by one. And yes, let's hope that all those packages work fine with the jdk we installed or we have to figure out what went wrong and we need to download and install some more. Sure, we could read all the docs first to find out, that would most definitely be a good way of cutting down on wasted time... We could even download them to round out the downloading spree. And when we're done, we only have Python left to go ... By comparison, in Ubuntu it goes: click click click click done.

In case anyone has actually read this post up to this point (haven't you got anything useful to do?) I admit that I paint a pretty one-sided picture. The thing is: just being able to do so without telling any lies should make anyone aware that the superiority of windows is far from self-evident.

Here we go again, yet another "Linux vs. Windows" flame war thread.

The bottom line is that Linux and Windows are two different systems. Both systems have their own advantages and disadvantages, and different systems are best suited to the needs different people. No system is really "better" than any other for all users, they are just different.

Since this is just a Win v Lin thread I have merged it into the other thread. You know the one.

no flaming
But i only use Linux for a year or two now,
the reason , my hobby is learning and linux gives you the chance to,
I believe everything i've accomplished using linux can be done with windows, but not with the same hardware (this is nothing new ofcourse)
so i don't believe linux is better, it's just better for me , just as those folks who need window apps will "experience" their OS to be better
but today (as we speak) i'm trying to "sanitize" a virus-worm-hackerattack (opened a port) and i feel like putting ubuntu or so (which i did when even a system administartor/windowsguru couldn't give me any advice anymore. Now i don't even call him for help anymore
i think i'm being pointless, i believe the differences are ok ,more then one type rite,
hee, they are actually working together on some phone project ,i guess you'll know including MS and the programming is going to be linux based, so as we disagree , some of them work together and do agree, google it ,so flaming to me is like politricks ,politician curse each other election time, but actually are good friends and brethren, while their supporters sometimes even kill each other
and Bill i never met so i can't speak about him, but bussinessmen sometimes have a tendency to steal IMO
but then again everything can't be free, anyway, i'm not making any sense and have some bussiness to do

I agree firedancer. There is a place for both OS's. I have to admit, I still use both, partly for convienience party for my wife and kid, since they can get by easier with windoze.

Did somebody said lemonade?

*EULA? Linux wins.
*Freedom? Linux wins.
*Privacy and safety from the American government? Linux wins [source].
*Stability? Linux semi-wins. Linux can have uptime for years. Microsoft promises 99,9% uptime/year for servers. Which means 0.01% of a entire year means server downtime.
*Speed? Linux wins.
*Security? Linux wins.
*Price? Linux wins.gratis.
*Support? Linux wins on the home front and Windows on the business front.
*Cross platform? Linux wins.
*Native games? Windows wins.
*Productivity? Linux wins.
*Customisation? Linux wins.
*Networking? Linux wins.
*Multi-user environment? Linux wins.
*Multimedia? Linux wins. Additional codecs need to be installed on both OS's but Linux can play corrupted video files where Windows allways locks up.
*Idiot proof. Linux wins. Give the idiot a user acount.
*Lowest amount of complaints from famaily members about their pc's? Linux wins.
*Lowest learning curve? Depends... I make it a tie.
*Amount of Hardware supported? Linux wins.
*Computer lifecycle? Linux wins.
*Laptop battery life? Linux wins. [source]

That's all for now.

it has a low learning curve for some one who either hasn't used windows, or doesn't know much about it, e.g. the grandma who knows only which icon to click for email and the one for interent. Usually people who know more about windows have a hard time switching, then those that don't

I think what it comes down to is which one does a person start with. Take someone who's never used a computer before, put anything in front of them and they'll learn that one, whether it's Windows, Linux, Mac or something else. After they've used something for a few years and try to switch there are enough similarities that they can stumble around to find what they're looking for, but the average user doesn't want to stumble around.

I guess the people who say both Windows and Linux are fine, just different, are right. It depends on the needs of the user.

If you just want something to play games and casually surf the 'net Windows is fine. Just don't forget to install good antivirus, anti-spyware and firewall software. Oops, that leaves things running in the background using memory and slowing the system. And don't forget to spend 10 minutes daily keeping them updated for maximum protection. The antivirus usually wants to do a scan every time Windows boots but that's a little much. I usually recommend a full scan every two weeks. And don't forget a good registry cleaning utility. You know how the registry gets cluttered and slow after a few installations and removals. And don't forget to setup a non-admin user for normal use. We don't want any malware that might slip past our scanners or drive-by downloads from a rogue website. Darnit! Now we can't install some things or perform system maintenance without logging out and logging in as the Administrator. Whew! That's a lot of work just to keep your Windows computer safe and clean! Fast-forward a couple years - the new version of Windows hits store shelves! Woo-hoo!!!...oh, wait...DANG! My two-year-old computer isn't fast enough for it!

If you want something that you can customize and tweak to personal perfection, something that can handle the workload of a dozen Windows-based machines, something that's easily maintained, something that will work without a GUI if that's how you want it, something that can be upgraded without upgrading hardware, something that will stay clean and pure and free as in freedom it's Linux.

I've used the analogy of the sandbox before:
Windows is like the child playing in a sandbox - just playing around and getting dirty and needing to be cleaned often. Linux is like the finely-sculpted sand castle - the sculptor spending time and effort to craft the thing of beauty that others marvel at.

[QUOTE=dracolich;2957982]I think what it comes down to is which one does a person start with. Take someone who's never used a computer before, put anything in front of them and they'll learn that one, whether it's Windows, Linux, Mac or something else. After they've used something for a few years and try to switch there are enough similarities that they can stumble around to find what they're looking for, but the average user doesn't want to stumble around.{/quote]






I don't beleive the theory that you absolutly neeed to have an administrator account on Windows unless you wan'tto share the computer betwen multipule usesr or want to controll the kinds of websites, gasoftware and which that a student or childn't fouwl up the commputer. how ever with Vista you need to have a daily cirus, spy ware etc scan, I got this tid bit frommy computer literacy Professor who is an ex comp[uter security Analyst which i live by becAUSE I going to school for a certificate in Microsoft System administration ain adition to linux System Server Certifacation.


I can agree with this but in my limited experience wwith it windows vista seems prety customizable

i think there are more home desktops(or probably even servers) then whatever machines outside our homes ...

but ofcourse ... whatever is happening outside our homes got nothing to do with what our desktops/servers in our homes are doing ... those are buisness people making decisions that are totally "dissconnected" from what we want to do and to have in our homes ...



//so ... is it that difficult to only have linux in our homes ... ?? i dont actually think so ...


.

Just go ahead and lie to yourself when you are using Windows. Just pretend there is no DRM all over the place. just ignore that Microsoft, NSA and now a unknown third party (Germany?) can log into your pc with a simple key and you don't even know it. Just forget about that when you are using Windows Messenger Live that everything you say and do is structurally indexed and sold to high bidding third party's who can be anyone (Businesses, foes, uncles, etc). Just forget about the fact that all good mallware will never be detected let alone noticed. Just forget they are locking you in and let you buy a new OS every five years for over $300,- or face the security holes which will never get updated. Just forget about the fact that Internet Explorer deliberitly crashes when you want to download a large file (Linux.iso?!). Just forget about the fact that DirectX10 is not that much better than DirectX9; in fact the only thing that distinguishes DX10 from DX9 is that multiple layers of 'smoke' look like volumatric smoke now, fur and grass can look like 3D now and they have a nice shader for water effects. That's all. Hah you thought Crysis was beautifull because of DirectX10 didn't you? Well wake up my friend, let me tell you that OpenGL is still used by large animation studios for one thing only: it is ten times better. Let me go one step further and tell you that DirectX is for low end graphics and OpenGL is for high end graphics. So what does Microsoft do when OpenGL is still better than DirectX10? They make sure that OpenGL will run slower on Vista. Man I can go on for days.

So if you know Linux exists and you actually have a brain then there is no excuse to not switch to Linux or any other free software OS unless you are allready locked in but that will just prove my point.

another interesting poll: "Linux vs Windows for Web Hosting" - http://allhostinginfo.com/2007/11/13...r-web-hosting/

After experimenting with Debian and Ubuntu, I tried PClinuxos in August, 2006. At first, I dual booted with Linux and Windows XP. In February, 2007, I installed the latest version of PClinuxos and following the instructions in the February issue of PClinuxos magazine, I installed VMWARE and created a Windows XP virtual machine. I am now finding that I might use Windows for only a couple of minutes a day. I do not use Windows for surfing, since I feel that it is too vulnerable to spyware and viruses. According to www.stopbadware.org, there are now over 270,000 sites that attempt to poison the Windows operating system with spyware and viruses. Some of the junk that they install on your computer are very hard to remove, and sometimes require a complete reinstallation of the operating system. When I surf in Linux, I don't worry. Even if they corrupt the browser, I can easily uninstall and reinstall it, after removing the browser's hidden directory. I have never had this happen yet.

I am not a gamer, but I do play some of the games available in Linux. I guess if you were a gamer, you could dual boot with Linux and Windows, and protect your Windows installation by restricting your surfing to Linux.

Some of the other advantages of Linux:
Faster
Easy installation of programs with Synaptic or other package installer.
Stability. Windows likes to crash without explanation.
No harrassing messages from the task bar.
True multitasking..You can burn a CD and ignore it, while you do other work on the computer.
Multiple desktops and wide selection of customizing features.
You can run several movies at the same time with no noticeable degrading of system.
You place your cursor over a movie, mp3, or picture and you get a real preview.
Your computer connects to internet, before you start the Xwindows manager.
You dont have to wait for the taskbar to load and start a bunch of craplets.

Health Improvements:
No anxiety, frustration, of irritation. It is a peaceful computer environment.

Linux is cool. Winblows is crap. Phhhtttt.

I have said some nasty things about asus laptops on this thread. Still don't like the older models but if I ever meet Mr Asus I'll buy that man a pint. Credit where its due for the eee pc and asus sticking to the open source way of getting things done.

Ok, I'll be quiet now