The All New Linux vs Windows MegaSuperThread

SCerovec · 07-04-2007, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daihard

Amen to that!

'toldya didn'oy ;-)

It's their last train ...

Either that or they will be VMWareized B-) and won't see a boot-sector or MBR for a while (eternity?)

daihard · 07-04-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCerovec

'toldya didn'oy ;-)

It's their last train ...

They may be too proud of themselves to take it... I can see them choosing the last train for the coast instead (and going down, down, down...)

schneidz · 07-09-2007, 02:16 PM

from pg 60:

Quote:

Originally Posted by angevelon

...1. I am a newb, so i should just due my time and RTFM, and come back when i can ask a real question or.....

now, through my trials and tribulations with linux, i keep coming back to windows. i know!!!!!( why dont you just stick with it, blah blah blah....). well ill tell you. its because it works. it works .it works!!!!!!!!!!!
and that is my point in all of this.
ive been reading a lot of material on linux trying to get it to do what i want. my experience with linux has been with redhat,ubuntu,slackware, and knoppix(the most functional"out of the box "so to speak)
i have had problems with driver and applications and networking , and instalation. and i see a lot of my problems all around have the linux community to blame. now im not trying to flame here but.....

linux adoption in my opinion needs a couple of elements for wide adoption from people like me

first-it needs a COMPLETE GUI EVIROMENT, everything that you have to manual edit, script, compile,edit,ect... must be made to work the same way through a dumb gui interface(look at WINBLOWS). when you run windows, unless you are trying to seriously modify the os, everything is a gui, drivers,network,programs,desktop,users accounts,and system settings, its all gui. most of windows can be completly controlled and tailord to a user with almost no keyboard at all... s/he goes on and on...

another one of these 'what linux needs to be ready for the masses' posts.

the biggest reason linux isn't the primary desktop os is because there are no oem's that carry pre-installed pc's in their stores.

keep in mind all of the issues this poster mentions (network card not working, soundcard, video card) also occured in their windows pc. the only difference is that they paid someone to spend :40 mins on it before they put it on the up-ex truck. (they were also kind enough to include a norton ghost-ed oem cd for when all these problems creep back and you can restore it to the factory default.)

i wouldn't expect someone who still has a flashing 12:00 on there vcr to be patient enough to install a network card driver. and because they hafta' punch a few extra keys that means the os sux.

why dont they ask h-way to charge them a premium for building it for them pre-configured.

AceofSpades19 · 07-09-2007, 04:21 PM

dell now preinstalls linux on pcs

hand of fate · 07-09-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

i wouldn't expect someone who still has a flashing 12:00 on there vcr to be patient enough to install a network card driver. and because they hafta' punch a few extra keys that means the os sux.

Do you mean they wouldn't have the patience to install a network driver in Linux?

Under Windows there is no need for patience here. I bought a wireless card, popped the CD that came with the card into the CD drive, followed a few simple on-screen instructions, and within a matter of minutes the wireless network was connected under Windows.

I still haven't managed to get the same card to work under Linux at all even after months of searching the net, compiling software, chasing dependencies, entering apparently meaningless commands, trying to decipher apparently meaningless error messages and manually modifying text files. This is not a matter of "punching a few keys"!

dalek · 07-09-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand of fate

Do you mean they wouldn't have the patience to install a network driver in Linux?

Under Windows there is no need for patience here. I bought a wireless card, popped the CD that came with the card into the CD drive, followed a few simple on-screen instructions, and within a matter of minutes the wireless network was connected under Windows.

I still haven't managed to get the same card to work under Linux at all even after months of searching the net, compiling software, chasing dependencies, entering apparently meaningless commands, trying to decipher apparently meaningless error messages and manually modifying text files. This is not a matter of "punching a few keys"!

Funny, I have had the opposite problem. I bought a digital camera and wanted to set it up so my bro could use it on his puter too. He uses Windoze XP and after installing/uninstalling the driver half a dozen times, that camera has never been able to download a single picture. I spent hours on that thing for nothing.

On my Gentoo Linux box, I installed gtkam, which took a few minutes to compile, then opened up gtkam as root at first and downloaded all my new pics. I had to edit the group file to change the permissions then it has worked ever since as a regular user.

My bros XP, I have to get them on my puter, burn them to a CD and take them to him that way. Now he bought a digital camera a little smaller than mine a while later, the only way he can get his to work is to plug the camera up and reboot the puter while the camera is on. Go figure.

Linux ain't perfect every time but windoze ain't either. What kind of network card did you get? I'll see if I can help you get it going.

schneidz · 07-10-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand of fate

Do you mean they wouldn't have the patience to install a network driver in Linux?

Under Windows there is no need for patience here. I bought a wireless card, popped the CD that came with the card into the CD drive, followed a few simple on-screen instructions, and within a matter of minutes the wireless network was connected under Windows.

I still haven't managed to get the same card to work under Linux at all even after months of searching the net, compiling software, chasing dependencies, entering apparently meaningless commands, trying to decipher apparently meaningless error messages and manually modifying text files. This is not a matter of "punching a few keys"!

why didnt you just put in the cd-rom you used for the windows install.
[surprise] it doesnt have a linux installer[/surprise]
not the fault of the os; more the fault of the hardware manufacturer.

_________________________

i forgot this in my original arguement but 3rd party oem peripheral manufacturers ofen neglect to include drivers for their products (the second biggest reason why linux isnt popular).

_________________________
edit: i realized that you are arguing that just because they are windows users doesnt mean they are too incompetant to install a driver for a peice of hardware (good point).
my next arguement is that 3rd party hardware manufacturers cater to a certain audience and so the process is streamlined for them. i think a reason why people think linux is just for geeks/ hackers.

schneidz · 07-10-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek

Funny, I have had the opposite problem. I bought a digital camera and wanted to set it up so my bro could use it on his puter too. He uses Windoze XP and after installing/uninstalling the driver half a dozen times, that camera has never been able to download a single picture. I spent hours on that thing for nothing.

On my Gentoo Linux box, I installed gtkam, which took a few minutes to compile, then opened up gtkam as root at first and downloaded all my new pics. I had to edit the group file to change the permissions then it has worked ever since as a regular user.

My bros XP, I have to get them on my puter, burn them to a CD and take them to him that way. Now he bought a digital camera a little smaller than mine a while later, the only way he can get his to work is to plug the camera up and reboot the puter while the camera is on. Go figure.

Linux ain't perfect every time but windoze ain't either. What kind of network card did you get? I'll see if I can help you get it going.

my experience is stuff that can be mounted as a filesystem tends to work well in linux, but wireless cards (internal/ external) tend not to work well for technical/ legal reasons. (e.g.- centrino drivers are closed so centrino laptops usually dont work in linux)

schneidz · 07-10-2007, 10:59 AM

this kinda' adds to the myth that windows is easier to install than any other operating system.

most people who say this never installed any operating system before (including windows) they pay for it to be pre-installed. i wouldnt count restore-ing to factory default to be the same as an install.

compared with having to download an iso, burn the iso to cd, defrag the hard drive, partition the hard drive, ... there are more steps involved.

a few years back i went to an open source club meeting at templu u. engineering and they did a few installs in the computer lab as a demonstation. they did full redhat-9 openbsd suse and win-xp (win-xp was in last place because the machine has to bounce so many times).

after that all 4 engineering computer labs were duel boot.

schneidz · 07-10-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofSpades19

dell now preinstalls linux on pcs

wouldnt dell benifit from having duel-boot systems ?

instead of making people choose, there would probably be more adoption from duel-booters ?

i think having all tools available would be a good thing.

anyone care to comment ?

dalek · 07-10-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

my experience is stuff that can be mounted as a filesystem tends to work well in linux, but wireless cards (internal/ external) tend not to work well for technical/ legal reasons. (e.g.- centrino drivers are closed so centrino laptops usually dont work in linux)

I also had a similar problem with a internal nic too. Windoze said it was broken and never worked. I put in another card to get it to work with windoze. Funny thing is, later on I installed Linux on the system. The card worked fine and is very fast. It was a standard ethernet card, nothing special about it. Heck, it was a eMachines computer at that.

Any clue why it worked under Linux but not windoze? I never had a wireless card before but I have read they are getting drivers for them now. May have to get a pretty recent kernel though. I just wish the manufacturers would help with the drivers though. That seems to be the hang up.

hand of fate · 07-10-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

why didnt you just put in the cd-rom you used for the windows install.
[surprise] it doesnt have a linux installer[/surprise]
not the fault of the os; more the fault of the hardware manufacturer.

The OS is an inanimate object, and can't be personally "at fault" for anything!

It makes a very real difference to the user whether their hardware works on their OS. That is a perfectly good reason to choose the OS that works over the one that doesn't. It is also perfectly reasonable to choose the OS that is much easier to get working.

It makes no practical different who's "fault" anyone considers this to be, or even if anyone considers it to be that "fault" of an inanimate object!

hand of fate · 07-10-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneidz

wouldnt dell benifit from having duel-boot systems ?

instead of making people choose, there would probably be more adoption from duel-booters ?

i think having all tools available would be a good thing.

anyone care to comment ?

I think dual boot systems would be more useful