sycamorex

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The idea of partial insanity has always fascinated me. After a lengthy period of self-observation and extensive study of my psyche, I've concluded that I'm also slightly insane.
To be precise, these are my findings:
14.452724% of me displays signs of insanity
57.674666% of me displays sings of sanity
The remaining percentage displays all sorts of road signs.

manwithaplan

ROFL ...! Now that's a rebuttal... LOL!

easuter

How is promoting the use of contraception and advocating that families have 1 or 2 children (instead of dozens) insane?

BTW, I find it amusing that you cited the batshit-crazy wingnut Glen Beck, of all people, to support your position.
Cognitive dissonance much?

Dogs

You know what, buddy? If .gov hadn't warped the minds of people so much, maybe they wouldn't have so many damned kids.

Inversely, if a family functions very well, with a number > 10 immediate members, who are YOU to say what they can and can't do?

The use of contraception wouldn't be necessary if .gov didn't push sex as if it were the only thing anyone should ever care about.

Me? I don't have kids, but I've had a girlfriend for about 5 years now. We don't use any kinds of crazy assed drugs, or condoms, or any other bullshit. SEX ISN'T WHY WE LOVE EACHOTHER. Our bodies don't mean shit. It's our minds that we care about.


Actually, none of this would be an issue if so many people weren't so dumb, but alas.. There's so much propaganda out there hitting people from ages 0 to 100, that I really can't blame them for being so disillusioned within their own minds, that these issues manifest themselves.

It doesn't help to have people, such as John Holdren, and yourself, exploiting that fact in furtherance of their own...

what's the word for a person who views life forms as less than dirt? Something to be abused for entertainment?
Someone that would take great pride in mass murder, because it's something he came up with? (not knife stab murder, but a clever design to slowly but surely kill em all.)

just the concept of taking a life, and some kind of pride derived from it.


Like Stalin, Lenin, etc? What do we call them?


That word agenda..

agenda nonetheless. You want something, and what you want involves less people. That's a cop out, homie. We do better than that here in America, or at least we used to. I do better than that.

easuter

Erm, just take a look at developing nations where having huge families means that there is never enough food to go around, simply because there are too many mouths to feed. Family planning and the emancipation of women within developing societies is directly correlated with an increase in quality of life.

Just having a WTF moment right now....so when exactly did I say or advocate the position that people are "dirt" should be abused for entertainment?

Methinks Dogs has been suckling at Glenn Beck's teet for way too long.

So I will state this for the jillionth (and last) time: I don't advocate or even suggest that people should be killed as a means of population control, which is what you for some bizarre reason think.
I am in favour of not allowing the population grow (by means of family planning) to levels where the resources of our planet are no longer capable of sustaining us, at which point nature does its thing by letting us starve when there is not enough food to go around. This is a historical fact, not speculation. Again, look up Easter Island: a classical case of overpopulation followed by a societal meltdown because of resource shortage.

Dogs

That's good..

Developing nations? A lot of em don't have very creative individuals living in em, eh?

What about hydroponics? You don't have to take up 100sqmi to feed a city, you just have to have a pair and the ability to do something useful for yourself. Course, that's not what John Holdren wants.

I lump you, and John Holdren together, due to your defense of the man in previous discussions we've had.

The "entertainment" value isn't a reference to rap music, and television. It's a reference to any amount of emotional stimulation, or any sort of justifiable reason why doing so would be "right."

It's entertaining purely in the sense of the word, which isn't simply defined as something that you do when you're not doing something more important than being entertained...

Consider, "Entertaining the mind with thoughts of population control."

No.. Innovate, don't annihilate.

Tell me this.. Is it a sick man that supports "Compulsory abortions"?\
Also, do you support this belief?


Furthermore - My parents both came from families of >7 siblings + 2 parents. All lived well and prospered, because they worked together, for eachother, because it was less about all the crap you're worried about, and more about staying alive.

None of em ever had the luxury of saying, "Hey, .gov, My skills suck and you need to keep me alive!"

easuter

How about they don't even have the resources or education to implement a small subset of our lifestyles.

Sigh...there is just no way to get through that thick skull of yours. It doesn't matter in the long term how much "innovating" you do. There will be a point at which there simply isn't any more room for the population to grow, this is a FACT because out planet is FINITE. By this time we will be all living one on top of the other like animals in cramped pens (if we aren't already warring with each other over space). Talk about reducing the value of human life to the status of dirt: this is what YOUR route will lead to.

Yes it is sick, and I don't agree with that position.
And I know where you are going with this: Holdren doesn't advocate forced abortions, in his book he put forward the observation that they may be constitutional.
So maybe you should write to your political representative and inquire about how this hole can be "patched". Sheesh!

Dogs

ZOMG.. We're running out of roomz on earth!

REALLY? Is that the best you can come up with?

You ditch your claim about starving to death in favor of running out of room on the earth for the unchecked growth of the population?

I thought starving to death was much more plausible than THAT!



Also - Developing nations - Stuff sucks on the bottom.. Believe me. I barely have the resources to keep myself alive, I understand starving, cuz I've been there for a while, and I gladly pay for the internet because I view access to large volumes of knowledge above life itself. Granted, I am on the bottom of society. That's fine with me, because I'm not very old, either, and though my family did do well physically, they never had much money left over, because unfortunately.. They fell for a lot of .gov programs and whatnot, and it didn't get them anywhere they'd hoped. This nation wasn't always the best place to be either.. At one point, it had NO TECHNOLOGY, NOTHING WE HAVE TODAY, and the very idea of COMING HERE.. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU COME HERE AT THAT POINT?

Because you Freakin hated with all that was in you, the country you came from. That's why! ANYTHING but what you came from. ANYTHING, and in this case - That anything is total uncertainty that you'd make it here in the first place, NEVERMIND what you'd do when you GOT HERE! Now you're proposing things that people initially ran away from, to create this nation, which has sank so low that you'd honestly be able to harbor the opinion you're voicing on these boards, and not be smacked down by somebody for it. I guess that's where I come in, huh?

Screw it, I've never been one to ask for handouts anyway. Not to say I couldn't ask for some once and again, but what's the point? A small influx of cash doesn't help me, as you like to point out, IN THE LONG RUN. No.. I'd rather get somewhere instead, so I can stop worrying about where my next meal is coming from. Problem's I face now are people that view gigantic government as a good thing, where what's not written by the government as allowable, is illegal by default. Uh-oh.. PROBLEMS! Where can I run, though? I can't run anywhere.. Nothing is as good as the good ol' USA, but damned if it aint getting close to nothin, with Obama's money printing schemes going on, unions screwing the businesses into the ground, regulations sapping the money from businesses, and/or making them impossible in the first place..

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? .gov happened.

Get real, dude. ./earth brings about 9 levels of hell, and don't think for a minute that you're not going to experience 9 levels of hell regardless of how few or how many people are on it.

easuter

The more room we occupy, the less space there is to cultivate food. The more of us there are, the more likely territorial wars will break out and the less food there is to go around. How much farming and food delivering do you think goes on in a country ravaged by war?

Does your brain not posses the same logic and reasoning skills the most of us do?

I'm stating to think you are a troll. I can't believe that anyone could be this thick.
If you are a troll then congratulations, you caught me hook, line and sinker.

Dogs

I aint a troll. I just enjoy talking to people that have somewhat of an imagination, and an above-average IQ. I'm thick skulled because I believe what I say, and I don't feel like changing because of some dude's violation of a garbage in -> garbage out mathematical break down of the consumption of space and resources by a growing population.

We have plastic, we have dozens of skilled individuals. We can build up, instead of across.. We can build DOWN instead of across. We can build across.. OCEANS..

Basically, we can build whatever. Hydroponics isn't something people have had forever, it's a great way to do things. It'll eliminate a lot of the issues you're worried about.

A semi-competent engineer can fix most of the stackup from "overcrowding" that you speak of, but what would you know about that? I mean, for all I know, the best way for people to get around that you could invision (based on your own logic) is CARS! Really? That's the best we can come up with? Cars.. Huge roads that occupy so much space? We don't need that crap, and it's a bad idea anyway. It got us this far, therefore I love it, but hey.. There's better out there.

It all starts with a smarter society, not a smaller society, and you inhibit intelligence by seeking to prevent too much of it.



Also - If you're worried about a territorial war, why don't you worry about how pissed off so many people are at .gov at the moment, and reconsider your predictions to include civil war, within your lifetime?

Mm.. not because of overcrowding, but because of PISS POOR MANAGEMENT courtesy of tyrants the world over.

easuter

This is absolutely unbelievable! You are STILL assuming an infinite amount of available resources!
There is simply no way a long term sustainable society can ever be achieved using your "strength by exhaustion" plan for the future.

I am already tired and have had more than my share of WTFs for one day. We have both derailed this thread, so this is my last post on this topic, hoping it can resume its original course.

Dogs

You sir, are a defeatist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqcBC...eature=related


Back on topic - .gov hates Americans, and that's why you should be careful with the swine flu vaccine, and treat it like a loaded gun in a bathroom stall..


STOP! Don't touch! Get an adult!

H_TeXMeX_H

It's interesting how once the word 'gubmint' comes into play, a thread gets completely off topic.

Anyway, I won't bother arguing anymore, there's not much point. But I will state my reasons for doubting this vaccine:

1) H1N1 is not a threat ... unless the gubmint does something to change that.

2) Most of the vaccines contain mercury, some do not. I guess just in case I could get a hold of some of those without, in case I am wrong (possible). However, I won't take them until I see that they are effective.

3) I very much doubt the effectiveness of ANY vaccine for infulenza A ... to date there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to prove the efficacy of these vaccines. H1N1 is no different.

4) Insufficient testing ... you all talk about science and safety ... how long and how thoroughly have they tested this. They themselves admit they haven't tested it much at all.

5) H1N1 is a suspicious virus, no pigs infected, maybe even no humans ... I sense this was a manufactured event or virus.

6) The fearmongering by the media and gubmint for no apparent reason, and the plans to vaccinate everyone twice. This suggests that something may happen, an outbreak ... its cause unknown, perhaps by those that know it was going to happen, that made it happen.

So, I will NOT take this vaccine by force if they force it. I will take it if and only if I am 100% convinced of its efficacy and safety enough to warrant me taking it. They have not convinced me, in fact they have done the opposite.

Anyway, that's all from me on this topic, as many of you have stated, I should shut up. So be it, I won't say any more on it on this forum. But, I feel I had to try to say something.

Hangdog42

Please tell that to the families that H1N1 has killed. And Mother Nature is MUCH more capable of developing lethal viruses than any gubmint agency.

Thanks to burning coal for electricity, the air has mercury. Fish are an abundant source of mercury. Just to be consistent are you also swearing off fish and breathing?

Please get some facts. I suggest searching PubMed for actual scientific content on flu vaccine efficacy. It may not be as entertaining as the conspiracy wackos, but at least it has the benefit of being grounded in reality rather than hallucination.
This is EXACTLY the same vaccine that has been used for decades. The only difference is the different versions of hemagglutanin and neuraminidase. The rest of it is the same old same old.

Swine flu found in a pig in Minnesota.

Only the truly ignorant believe that humans made this. Mother Nature is much more vicious and much more capable than any person.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, the media have lost all capability for rational evaluation of scientific facts. If it a topic is more complex than Brittany Spear bra size, the media can't handle it at all. Fearmongering gets an audience, and since they get paid by audience size, that is what they do. Nothing to see here except greed and stupidity by the media. As for the gubmint, they are in a damned if they do damned if they don't situation. If they push public safety they have all the paranoid lunatics on the Intarwebs screaming about conspiracy. If they sit back an do nothing and it turns out to be a real problem, they have all the paranoid lunatics on the Intarwebs screaming conspiracy AND a thoroughly pissed off public. So they take the lesser of two evils.
Good. The less shoveling bullshit from one place to another the better.

Dogs

Hangdog42, I would like to hear your reasoning behind your statements.

If I, and TexMex are ignorant, and ill informed, I would like to know how to better educate myself. I've tried sites like the WHO, and the CDC, but I haven't discovered topics which discuss the matter in a way suitable for someone outside of the third grade.

I want some good details, real research, and have it presented in a way I can appreciate.


Specifically, I would like to know how they prove the existence of the h1n1 virus. I would like to know, when confronted with a patient, how they diagnose the illness. ("They do bloodwork" is NOT a suitable answer.)

I acknowledge your direction to PubMed and I assume you've already done a little research yourself to validate their information. Could you please forward the links that you've visited with regard to PubMed, CDC, WHO, h1n1 virus, and the h1n1 vaccine?

Thank you.