ORLY? Like after vaccinating the whole goddamn planet against smallpox there was still a massive smallpox pandemic, right? Just like MMR vaccination programs have been followed by measles, mumps and rubella becoming rampant in our population, right? RIGHT? NO!

Show me how you drew that absurd conclusion, please! At least present historical statistical data that shows absolutely no correlation between vaccine use and a decrease of the target diseases.

Data! Dataaaaa!! LOOK AT THE DATA!!! Draw your conclusions from hard data, damn it.

That depends on the changes to the virus. Once you've been immunized against something, you stay immunized against it. The body tends to mount a less robust immune response over time after immunization (think decades though). However, if the changed virus still retains recognized sequences, yes, the immune system will respond and try to fight off the infection. For viruses that don't change, like smallpox, this isn't an issue.

No because there is no point in doing so with flu. We don't know what the future variants are going to look like so it will be dealt with when it shows up.

You're missing the point (or avoiding it). If someone can make no discernible progress towards a goal in 250 years, why be afraid of them?
Sheesh. I say absolutely none of this happens. None. And I do intend to revist this thread once H1N1 has passed and we'll see who was right.

Sorry to be slightly in between topics here, but I just wanted to say that there are two things about "bullet-proof vests" that I have always found interesting:
1) The obvious work-around that has not ever been adequately addressed -- that being to shoot the wearer in the head.
2) Depending on the construction/make/model of the "vest" (less so with steel plate armor, but particularly wrt kevlar), the wearer, while being "bullet-proof", is not necessarily knife-proof, and therefore can still be stabbed or impaled to death with a suitably hard pointed object.

Cheers,
Sasha

On topic -- a 13-yr old Ontario boy went from apparently healthy, to deceased, over about a 48-hr period the other day, apparently from swine flu. Such cases make one wonder if genetics play any role in ones susceptibility to this illness. When it strikes like this, it's even more deadly than SARS was in its time.

R.I.P. Evaan

Sasha

"apparently" ... that's not good enough. Lots of people die every day of various causes. I believe the CDC already ordered that anything with flu-like symptoms is to be considered swine flu, no matter what it really is.

I also think it's making people scared, and paranoid, which is what they want. Normally we don't think about how many people die all around us ... but there are many, and most of them, even now have absolutely nothing to do with swine flu. I'm not even sure it exists. In fact, to me it does not exist, unless they can prove it does. It may exist at some point in the future tho, but I can't see the future.

And, as for internet censorship deal: I'm almost positive that what they say cannot happen. They're talking (from what I understand) about the ISP servers being overloaded not the internet pipelines themselves ("especially the "last mile" between a user's home and central cable systems."). That's not possible. Unless the people running the ISPs are demented (and hopefully they are not), they know how many people they are serving to and are capable of dealing with fluctuating levels of usage. Besides, there are thousands of ISPs nationwide, even if some of the crappier ones get overloaded the others will stay up. Yet, they want to censor it nationwide ... that reeks of fish.

There are issues with this as well.. Knife/arrow proof armor isn't bullet proof (such as ring mail) but Kevlar will stop *some bullets.

The deal with kevlar is the tightly woven strands of fibre that, on impact from a project that is spinning > 50,000rpm will get "caught" in the strands, and twist up just like when you run the vacuum cleaner over a pile of yarn.

Hence, narrow, sharp points that do not spin will go through it like anything else. Arrows do remarkably well against body armor, except SAPI plates, which will also stop a greater variety of projectiles, some including the 30-06.

What is the solution to a headshot? well, not much for rifle fire as of yet, however there are level IIIA helmets, and clear ballistic plastic masks that cover the entire face.

At that point, your only options when using something blocked by the armor is at the neck, or the limbs.

Examine the footage from the g20 riots. They don level IIIA armor from kneepads, to crotch guards, to torso guards and elbow guards (presumably some officers had chest/side plates) and they donned the facemasks and helmets, all should be rated level IIIA


Relevance? Here it is..

I'll hand you a loosely threaded piece of twill, that you will drape over your shoulder..

No worries, my friend. It will stop an atomic bomb. Of course, I won't expose you to an atomic bomb, because such things would be stupid and unethical, hence all the people around you may not have the same awesome armor that you have, which is this loosely threaded piece of twill.

but it's ok, you'll survive if and when it happens.

While having lunch today on campus I saw a student with a mask on walk by suddenly. Kinda freaked me out at first, plus I don't know if that person is already sick, or just really scared of H1N1 to just wear a mask all day.


Now an emergency was declared across the US concerning H1N1, and it just barely begun. I guess when it hits it's peak, then the shit really has hit the fan. Hrmm, where is my full body suit?

maine military surplus.

Fast and accurate shipping.

A full suit of stuff that *should keep you safe is able to be had for <40$ after tax and shipping.

I recommend the czech surplus gas masks, but if you plan to use a rifle while using the gas mask, you might prefer the russian versions.

Czech masks have greater visibility, and continuity, however the russian masks are slim and minimal, therefore allowing you to sufficiently "shoulder" the weapon.

Damn, I KNEW I should have bought that duct tape, and taped all my windows and door cracks. <--- Sarcasm.


Nevermind that I have a fire place, an attic, vents on top of my house, etc. I never did understand the point about duct taping one's home after 9/11, but I'm sure fox'news' will suggest it again for this H1N1 outbreak. Like some how duct tape WILL be effective from a bio/chemical attack, or just a flu epidemic, just like 'duck and cover' was of any real use during a possible nuclear strike during the cold war. Thats it, (well I know I'm stating the obvious), but the average American is truly f'ing stupid, and laps up whatever fox & co throws at them!

1. Ontario (the one in Canada) does not fall under CDC jurisdiction.
2. Having said that, a similar order was, in fact, given in Ontario by (I believe) the Chief Medical Officer.
3. While I believe that the CDC didn't order no-tests on "anything" with flu-like symptoms, but rather that not *everything* with flu-like symptoms be tested, I know that the "not-everything-but-certain-things" *was*, in fact, the implementation in Ontario. This helps manage limited testing facilities and human resources.
4. Toronto Public Health has confirmed the "apparently": It was (complications from) H1N1. Despite some early confusion on the matter, Evan Frustraglia had no underlying condition. It should be noted that officials are stressing that Evan's case is (at least so far) a rarity.
5. While I have no direct knowledge (for all the DATAAAAAA wh*res out there, like me), I'd take a bet that tests are being conducted on fatalities and on ICU cases.

An observation regarding the conspiracy theories:

So ... if there really WAS a pandemic, if there really WERE a legitimate at-home-sick ratio of 40% (Health Canada projections for potential infection and sickness rates are similar) and if there were a real need for quarantine, then, by definition ... the conspiracy must be true?

Alternately, if the vaccine *really* works and infection rates are mitigated and the projected "H1N1A maybe, possibly, might, potentially become more caustic (maybe)" scenario DOESN'T happen (perhaps because the probability has always been acknowledged as "low"), then, in this case, too, the conspiracy (or rather the *other* conspiracy) must be true.

And if either situation comes to pass but the .gov takeover doesn't come to pass, then the conspiracy still exists, but for other conspiratorial reasons, "they" have chosen to bide their time, because secretly they have already won?

Ok ... here's my offer ... if the foreign-troop-deployment, dissolve-the-government grand-conspiracy comes to pass on the heels of this wholly fabricated pandemic (eluding detection from the thousands and thousands of front line sheep who do the actual testing, shipping, treatment, policing, production et cetera), I will personally apologize and bow and scrape to everyone who has been so slighted by myself and the rest of the blind, heretical conspiracy-disbelievers. Of course, getting online to the internet won't be possible (if it were, anyone online would probably be part of the conspiracy), so you'll have to accept I'll apologize into the ether.

However, what would it take, what combination of circumstances, what outcomes, what data, what information, what evidence, would it take for those who are so certain that "this is the biiiiiig one", really ... wasn't.

Like I said in my very first post ... most people believe what they want to believe and have a strong tendency to interpret that which we see in ways that are consistent with that which we believe. I do the same thing ... it's a good thing that I'm right, isn't it.

Apologies to Tex here ... don't mean to single you out by posting this in my response to your comment.

"Duct" and cover? :P

+1!

For an interesting historical perspective:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/flu/fluepidemic.html

No, I'm not saying that it will get as bad as 1919 (nor am I saying it won't). I'm not saying that the conditions are the same. However, just a reminder for those that weren't around back then (like, um ... virtually all of us), just how bad it can get and how draconian the measures can be when faced with a truly virulent epidemic/pandemic. Frankly, if thousands are dying in *my* neck of the woods, they won't need martial law to keep me and my kids away from public gatherings. However, there seem to be plenty of people who either just don't give a flying fadoo, or feel they are mystically immune, or are "a few cards short" or, (to be fair) feel that they *have* to go hang out with groups of people.

Now, typically, I'd say ... if they want to go expose themselves to the plague ... well, that's their problem ... except, they become carriers themselves, except when they become one more plague ridden body that *someone* has to dispose of, that maybe that's just *one more* family without a father/mother. So ... if it gets that bad and people want to insist on being blind/willful/selfish ... do what ya gotta do to reign it in, and no, I don't find the notion of curfews and draconian impositions any more thrilling than anyone else does.

And here's the part where I apologize to all and sundry for making them cringe at the very mention of martial law.

And now for something COMPLETELY different ...

KFC joins the UN ... hahahahaha.

I heard this story while driving during my (arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggh) TWO HOUR COMMUTE to work today (did I mention ... arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggh?). It made the drive almost worth it. I laughed my ass off.

Heh, that's funny stuff (and I don't mean the 'chicken' this time)! So, KFC joins the UN around the same time that Mickey D decides it isn't profitable to operate in Afghanistan, and pulls out.

To quote a Suicidal Tendencies lyric, "What the hell's goin' on around here!?"