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Old 11-16-2012, 01:49 AM   #16
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
The tiny program I speak of is lazy. You ask about the quality of the CDs. But take any CD and let's consider it fix. That is, we'll always use this CD. If you see lazy plays it decently well (decently = skips once or twice through all of the CD playback) but mplayer, the Movie Player, is causing skipping all the time, what can your conclusions be?
If you cant get _anything_ to play the CDs without skipping, and you are running pentium or above (with low CPU use at idle) there is probably some issue with the hardware.

You've got another possible reason right there- Movieplayer. Its not made for playing CDs, its made for playing video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
The sound card is low end (suffice it to say it is an onboard card on a motherboard which is also a low-end product). But I have installed, only because I wanted to compare, a Yamaha OPL3-SA card, much better than the onboard card, and the result, in what touches mplayer is _exactly_ the same.
OPL3 'better' than onboard sound? In some cases yes, in other cases no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
I know, there can be a lot of them. But you can eliminate several ones. For example, as the CD and the drive are always the same, they _cannot_ be a part of the explanation.
No, CD drive and CD can still be part of the problem. What can read cleanly on one system can read badly on another system with the same CD drive and disc. Drive/BIOS/motherboard incompatibilty, and lots of possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by segmentation_fault View Post
Now, if the same disk on the same drive plays ok with one program and not ok with another, it is either bad decoding software or too much resource intensive software.
Or bad resource calls.

After speaking to a few people I know who had or remembered others having similar problems with playing CDs on some systems, that seemed to be the only solution that made sense to us.

One person I was talking to had minor issues with playing CD on a windows system with Winamp 2.X (audio only) and had much bigger problems with winamp 5.X (video capable). Sounds familiar....
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:30 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=cascade9;4830583]


Quote:
If you cant get _anything_ to play the CDs without skipping, and you are running pentium or above (with low CPU use at idle) there is probably some issue with the hardware.
Not anything. Lazy plays stamped CDs perfectly well, without skipping once.

Quote:
Posted by me: BEGIN
I know, there can be a lot of them. But you can eliminate several ones. For example, as the CD and the drive are always the same, they _cannot_ be a part of the explanation. END

No, CD drive and CD can still be part of the problem. What can read cleanly on one system can read badly on another system with the same CD drive and disc. Drive/BIOS/motherboard incompatibilty, and lots of possible
I mean, I have a machine, with all its components being identical to themselves, naturally, plus its drive and the given disc inside it. And the only variable is the program that will play the CD. It can be either lazy or mplayer. Let's further make the CD a top quality stamped audio CD (CDDA, Red Book). And the observed facts will be: lazy performs unobjectionably, mplayer makes a mess of it, by continuously skipping as if some buffer in the way were emptying at every time.

Quote:
Posted by segmentation_fault BEGIN
Now, if the same disk on the same drive plays ok with one program and not ok with another, it is either bad decoding software or too much resource intensive software. END

Or bad resource calls.

After speaking to a few people I know who had or remembered others having similar problems with playing CDs on some systems, that seemed to be the only solution that made sense to us.
But it is mplayer that you are speaking about here! That is a very serious project.



I can say this: first there were PCs. After these having met the dubious blessing of color, there came audio. Had we not enough with audio? No. There had to be video. Man, if you want to see a picture, turn on the TV set or, better yet, go to the cinema. And about all those highly especialized jobs we give desktops, which need color and multimedia capabilities, well, get another kind of computer for that.

Last edited by stf92; 11-16-2012 at 04:06 AM.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 03:42 AM   #18
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
But it is mplayer that you are speaking about here! That is a very serious project.
Serious- maybe. Good- yes. Made for playing CDs- no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
I can say this: first there were PCs. After these having met the damnation of color, there came audio. Had we not enough with audio? No. There had to be video. Man, if you want to see a picture, turn on the TV set or, better yet, go to the cinema. And about all those highly especialized jobs we give desktops, which need color and multimedia capabilities, well, get another kind of computer for that.
Colour was great, I'm pretty sure that sound was around before color. OK, only that internal PC speaker and limited to square waves, but still...

If you dont want to see a pciture, use command line only. The rest of us who like and use GUIs shouldnt be limited by your 1970s approach to computers.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 04:40 AM   #19
stf92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Serious- maybe. Good- yes. Made for playing CDs- no.
Ahaa ... For a person like me who only uses Slack and trusts the programs selected by the Slack guys, workbone is the only cli program of choice. I had it running from kernel 2.2.16 though slack 9.1 and 10.2 but never could make it work under 12.0. Now, slack is in 14.0, which I'm on the task of fine tuning to my needs and very particular tastes (they seem each time more particular coz the general trends and I take roads more distant and distant) and still that handy little program is there. Hope it'll work for me in 14.0. (Lazy has some problems I did not mention and there must be dozens of cli programs like lazy but, the few I have tested, have disappointed me).




Quote:
Colour was great, I'm pretty sure that sound was around before color. OK, only that internal PC speaker and limited to square waves, but still...
There was delta-modulation also. Through the PC speaker you could listen to all the color and timbre of musical instruments. There were a few programs lying around there. Of course, not exactly a hi-fi system.

Quote:
If you dont want to see a pciture, use command line only. The rest of us who like and use GUIs shouldnt be limited by your 1970s approach to computers.
You do not seem to understand up to what point our ideas and tastes are molded by the corporations. It was Microsoft who first succesfully launched a GUI into the market and definitely installed it in our heads.
 
Old 11-16-2012, 04:59 AM   #20
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
It was Microsoft who first succesfully launched a GUI into the market and definitely installed it in our heads.
Actually it was Apple.
I quite can't understand your approach. On the one site you complain that computers are not the same anymore, having sound and graphics capabilities, on the other side you try to play an audio-CD with your computer, although you state that a cheap dedicated device does a better job (and it is in fact much more cost-effective).

Seriously, there is something wrong with your machine, and it is not that it is a modern machine with sound and video capabilities. Either you have a hardware problem or a software problem. I would recommend to start with ruling out software problems, make a standard install of the latest Slackware version, change nothing and try to play an audio-CD from the command-line.
If it still not works test the hardware. If you have a spare one you can try if it works with a different CD drive. Check the machines temperatures, test the RAM, ... .
 
Old 11-16-2012, 05:39 AM   #21
stf92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Actually it was Apple.
I quite can't understand your approach. On the one site you complain that computers are not the same anymore, having sound and graphics capabilities, on the other side you try to play an audio-CD with your computer, although you state that a cheap dedicated device does a better job (and it is in fact much more cost-effective).
Yes, we humans are full of contradictions. Otherwise, we'd be machines. When I saw my computer could play films for me, I made heavy use of it. Until I saw it was much better to download first the picture for later watching at the TV. But, it is true, I have fallen pray of youtube and the innumerable opportunities of listening to good music there is there.

In my favour I can say I've always liked computer for the sake of computers. Writing a program and watching the computer execute it is a pleasure surpassed only by that of the mathematician who has just been able to prove some statement. In fact, writing it involves, or just _is_ math. And executing it, well, that's action!

Quote:
Seriously, there is something wrong with your machine, and it is not that it is a modern machine with sound and video capabilities. Either you have a hardware problem or a software problem. I would recommend to start with ruling out software problems, make a standard install of the latest Slackware version, change nothing and try to play an audio-CD from the command-line.
If it still not works test the hardware. If you have a spare one you can try if it works with a different CD drive. Check the machines temperatures, test the RAM, ... .
I now have a new machine, much more powerful than the one under discussion, and have just installed 14.0, a slackware version dating from this year. So, lets see what happens. As to mplayer, I had tested three different versions: the official site sources, a slackbuilds for slackware 12.0 (my slack was 12.0 and it is the one running while I write) and one build bob alien did for me. Also, I tested on two different machines. However, I ought to have done the tests in a more methodical way. If the program reproduces CDs well now, I'll be content and forget about the old problems. I'll never know where the problem was but ... bad luck.
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:07 AM   #22
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
You do not seem to understand up to what point our ideas and tastes are molded by the corporations.
LOL, sorry, you're way out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
It was Microsoft who first succesfully launched a GUI into the market and definitely installed it in our heads.
Apple and mircosoft took the idea from xerox. I'm not going to throw out a good idea simply becuase apple and microsoft have used that idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
As to mplayer, I had tested three different versions: the official site sources, a slackbuilds for slackware 12.0 (my slack was 12.0 and it is the one running while I write) and one build bob alien did for me. Also, I tested on two different machines. However, I ought to have done the tests in a more methodical way. If the program reproduces CDs well now, I'll be content and forget about the old problems. I'll never know where the problem was but ... bad luck.
Did you try or are you going to try any of the other more audio focused media players?
 
Old 11-18-2012, 09:08 AM   #23
stf92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
LOL, sorry, you're way out there.
Would you mind putting that into less colloquial English for one who is an outsider to your language. I mean it.

Quote:
Apple and mircosoft took the idea from xerox. I'm not going to throw out a good idea simply becuase apple and microsoft have used that idea.
I'm playing the roll of an ignorant with my words "It was Microsoft who first successfully launched a GUI". I said _successfully_, and you are not going to compare the enormous success of Microsoft with that of Apple.

Quote:
Did you try or are you going to try any of the other more audio focused media players?
It's that most of them, at least the most sophisticated, are GUI applications. The thing mplayer has is that it can be very "automatic", doing things by itself without you having to bother for things you do not know, but can also be minimally automatic, maximum manual control.

Another thing it has, is that it gives plenty of information when playing a file/disc. Besides I have started threads in an attempt to get hold of some special purpose cli CD player but have not been very lucky. Of course, slackware 14.0 still ships with workbone included, a very flexible program in its own way. But I do no think anything surpasses mplayer's flexibility. But, I know, such a big monster to play a CD!
 
Old 11-18-2012, 10:30 AM   #24
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
Would you mind putting that into less colloquial English for one who is an outsider to your language. I mean it.
Put a different way- 'sorry, but you are mistaken, I'm quite aware of how our tastes are shaped and defined by corporate and commercial interests'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
I'm playing the roll of an ignorant with my words "It was Microsoft who first successfully launched a GUI". I said _successfully_, and you are not going to compare the enormous success of Microsoft with that of Apple.
Xerox Altos were never avaible commercailly as far as I know. The system had huge impact though, and I'd count that as 'launched'.

In many ways apple is more succesful than microsoft.

If microsoft/IBM hadnt of got into the market, apple would have dominated for far longer than they did, possibly right up to now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
It's that most of them, at least the most sophisticated, are GUI applications. The thing mplayer has is that it can be very "automatic", doing things by itself without you having to bother for things you do not know, but can also be minimally automatic, maximum manual control.
Are you so against GUIs that you wont even try testing an audio player with a GUI?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stf92 View Post
But, I know, such a big monster to play a CD!
Big? Maybe in 15 years ago terms. Mplayer runs just fine on the few low RAM systems I use.
 
  


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