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Old 02-23-2006, 12:59 PM   #1
foo_bar_foo
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solar power


ok -- fascinated by nuclear thread responses.
i will try another.

solar and wind power.
a great solution that needs to be implemented by each individual.

solar and wind seem to be low voltage and intermittent so you need battery banks to store up the power.
low voltage generated locally makes utlilty grid obsolete (along with electric bills and electric companies.
i'm sure many of you in other places are aware of how the US NSA has traditionally used power grids as a way to stick lots of debt to developing nations and create long term contracts for "the empire".

solar and wind sure fixes this.

problem . still very expensive. only 500 Wh power from solar pannels can cost like 3000 US dollars.

people without means need money help to do it.

Last edited by foo_bar_foo; 02-23-2006 at 01:00 PM.
 
Old 02-23-2006, 01:08 PM   #2
pljvaldez
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Another issue with "green" energy sources that isn't talked about a lot is that there are still significant environmental costs of creating the energy sources. For example, google sometime to look at all the chemical processing and waste that is generated just be creating the solar cells...

Wind has less "waste" products, but there is still habitat destruction during installation and maintenance.

Not that I'm an environmental freak, but I do recycle and carpool.
 
Old 02-23-2006, 01:45 PM   #3
Dragineez
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Chicken Shit

No, really. My brother-in-law was working on a project to determine the feasibility (technical and economic) of methane production from chicken droppings from commercial chicken farms. He says it works, but really don't want that in your backyard!

Solar power generation is just too inefficient. Solar cells convert far too little energy to be feasible. Mirror farms to concentrate energy on a boiler barely generate enough power to run themselves and haven't justified their cost yet. And the idea of an orbiting solar collector with a multi-megawatt microwave death ray pointed at the ground scares me.
 
Old 02-23-2006, 01:54 PM   #4
enine
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Unfortunatly neither is very efficient at generating electricity so it will be a long time before either is really useful.
Where do you get "US NSA has traditionally used power grids as a way to stick lots of debt to developing nations and create long term contracts for "the empire"." from? We use power grids based on legacy reasons, thats how its been done since electricity was "invented".

"people without means need money help to do it."

Why can't people without money get a school loan and get a degree and get a job like I did so I can have money instead of just giving them help?
 
Old 02-23-2006, 04:43 PM   #5
floppywhopper
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Here is an interesting article on our local windfarm

It was meant to be bigger, but that was opposed by Greenies and the local council.

http://www.westernpower.com.au/about...nd_albany.html

here are some photos of it

http://www.westernpower.com.au/misc/...m_gallery.html

It supplies up to 75 % of our local electricity needs, it was meant to supply over 100 %, but there was all kinds of opposition.....

I guess people still prefer smelly old coal fired stations in someone elses backyard.

floppy
 
Old 02-23-2006, 04:46 PM   #6
mhill37
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Iím all keen on the latest technology and Iíll go environmentally-friendly if I can. I am also a firm supporter of the free market, which is the most efficient allocator of resources. At the moment, the free market says the price of photovoltaic electricity is too high, so I wonít be re-wiring my home for photovoltaics. But I may buy a small kit to play with, or to get my children interested in the technology.

And I am interested in fusion energy as well; I am watching with interest the progress of the ITER fusion reactor.
 
Old 02-23-2006, 05:15 PM   #7
slantoflight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Mirror farms to concentrate energy on a boiler barely generate enough power to run themselves and haven't justified their cost yet. And the idea of an orbiting solar collector with a multi-megawatt microwave death ray pointed at the ground scares me.
Really I think your just being paranoid. Its not like ray could mis-aim and melt the north pole, flooding half of North America and launch an ice age like in some crazy hollywood movie.

 
Old 02-23-2006, 05:16 PM   #8
Dragineez
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Scottish Wind

I remember riding past a wind power generator whilst bombing up the A-9 from Inverness to Thurso. Can't remember exactly where - I only remember it was a particularly tasty bit of windy tarmac especially fun to ride on a motorcycle. Any Scots out there? Where is that and does it still exist?
 
Old 02-23-2006, 05:18 PM   #9
Dragineez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slantoflight
Really I think your just being paranoid. Its not like ray could mis-aim and melt the north pole, flooding half of North America and launch an ice age like in some crazy hollywood movie.

But imagine being the poor bird that tried to fly through it....
 
Old 02-23-2006, 05:54 PM   #10
peter_89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floppywhopper
Here is an interesting article on our local windfarm

It was meant to be bigger, but that was opposed by Greenies
For God's sake, they don't want solar power because of habitat destruction, they don't want crustaceus thermal energy generators because of habitat destruction, they don't want windfarms because of habitat destruction... but they don't want nuclear or coal power either so it looks like they don't know what they want. That's the problem with many liberals these days, all they do is complain about the current system, they don't have any real propositions themselves...
 
Old 02-23-2006, 08:19 PM   #11
IBall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_89
For God's sake, they don't want solar power because of habitat destruction, they don't want crustaceus thermal energy generators because of habitat destruction, they don't want windfarms because of habitat destruction... but they don't want nuclear or coal power either so it looks like they don't know what they want. That's the problem with many liberals these days, all they do is complain about the current system, they don't have any real propositions themselves...
Our greenies here are a class act. They tried to block a new railway line the WA government is building because the trains won't use renewable electricity. I thought trains were good, because they take cars off the road. They have also blocked another windfarm on our south coast, because of visual pollution. What is worse - a few windmills or global warming??

Solar electricity is (at the moment) not a practical solution for large scale use. It would have a benefit in remote areas, such as the north of Western Australia. These places are too remote to be connected to the Grid, so rely on inefficient diesel generators for each town or station. Solar could be a real alternative in these areas.

Hot water makes up a huge component of a homes energy useage. A solar hot water system can significantly reduce the energy useage in a home. Basically, you get a tank on your roof, and a solar panel to heat the water. They generally pay for themselves after 7 years, and last for about 20. The water in summer comes out the tap almost steam, and in winter it needs a bit of boosting.

--Ian
 
Old 02-25-2006, 04:10 PM   #12
rob.rice
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I worked at a place called Alpha Solarco and we had plans for solar power plants that had the cost down to that of an oil fiered (gas turbines )power plant per Kwh
I know this for a fact because I spwnt 3 months on the phone getting prices for the stuff to build the power plants
this was with out night time storage but an oil fired (gas turbines )plant could have carried the load for the night
the night load on the grid is only 30% of the day time load

right now thay are building and useing them in China

the biggest thing keeping them from being used here are tax breaks for new oil fired power plants
 
Old 02-27-2006, 06:17 AM   #13
swordwielder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_89
For God's sake, they don't want solar power because of habitat destruction, they don't want crustaceus thermal energy generators because of habitat destruction, they don't want windfarms because of habitat destruction... but they don't want nuclear or coal power either so it looks like they don't know what they want. That's the problem with many liberals these days, all they do is complain about the current system, they don't have any real propositions themselves...

Amen brother!....and well said.
 
Old 02-28-2006, 12:11 PM   #14
celticgeek
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rob.rice: I interviewed at Alpha Solarco, but did not get a job there (I really was not what they were looking for). However, I was impressed with what they were doing along the lines of solar energy, and how they were working to bring the costs down.

I did the interview just after they had moved to the Phoenix, Arizona area from the Cincinnati, Ohio area, in 1994.

I also have a nephew who was instrumental in getting a windmill farm set up in Nebraska.

None of these systems is without problems to overcome before they become "mainstream", but they tend to be lots better, ecologically, than coal or nuclear systems.

I have been doing recycling and so forth for a long time. And I will continue to do so.
 
Old 02-28-2006, 06:12 PM   #15
bushidozen
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Sometimes I wonder why we do not really give renewable energy a chance. I live in Las Vegas, where for most of the year the weather is hot and sunny. Nevada is one of the largest states in the US, yet also one of the least populated. We could literally have miles of solar collectors thrown across half the state, and no one would notice. Yet too many people (on both sides of the issue) focus solely on the problems (or the costs) with renewable energy, and not on its potential benefits. We all know that fossil fuels are an efficient source of energy (while it lasts) because we have built entire global infrastructures designed to create that efficiency. Many countries with the means and the expertise simply will not do what they could (should?) be doing until there is virtually no other choice. In the meantime, we will continue to harm the environment to satisfy our greed for money and energy. We will continue to leverage our fortuitous geographic locations to garner political power and influence over those who lack our resources. Maybe I am just unrealisticly fantasizing, but when I think about this, it scares me.
 
  


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