I felt pretty happy this morning as I watched the news, and watched Saddams statue being toppled and the Iraqis cheering and stomping on it, taking to the streets in parades. I think the scene clearly shows the results of the work in Iraq. Yet, go in any number of islamic chat rooms or message boards and you get a different perspective. People screaming that everyone must now join Jihad against the US, how the videos of Iraqis cheering is just propaganda, how the US is a far more greater evil replacing a lesser evil, etc.

Trying to even have an intelligent debate in there is impossible, more like talking to a brick wall. What gets me, though, is how hypocritical it is. They sit in comfortable homes in front of a PC screaming baout Jihad to avenge the Iraqi people, that people must support Saddam solely because he is a Muslim (don't even ask me how that logic stands. I asked and got banned from the channel), and yet do they truely think that Muslims in Iraq, some who have probably had family members imprisoned due to political reasons and even tortured or executed?

I know the U.S. is going through it's own political turmoil with the FBI imprisoning "material witnesses" on scant or no evidence, but this is a far cry from what Saddam's secret police and death squads did to political dissedents. My whole question is, though, is why? Why do people have to be so hateful of the US when they are trying to accomplish good for the people? There may be some ulterior motives (oil) that I myself disagree with, but that hasn't even taken shape yet and you can't accuse someone of having ulterior motives when it isn't proven.

Either way, I think the Iraqi people will enjoy alot more freedom than they ever did under Saddam, which is good enough.

Probably because most of those people who are complaining have been told for most of their lives that the US is the Great Satanthat continually tries to reppress the Arab world. A country full of conscienceless evil men and whoring loose women. For a great many people, Saddam was a hero. After all, he had been thumbing his nose at the US for 15 years or so. The people who hate us so are afraid that Iraq will turn into a puppet state and will be yet another example of repression by a Western country. The fact that Saddam was a corrupt, cruel and evil b@stard is conveniently ignored.

They were obviously oppressed. Yes there are probably thousands of other reasons for going in at this time, but at least a whole country will be free.
Shame some anti-war wankers will still say it shouldn't have happened. It should have, just maybe not in the current state of world affairs.

they seem pretty happy now to me, i dont think that could be propaganda. im not a muslim so i cant speak for those who hate us for iraq, but what irks me is the americans who were against the war and didnt think iraq's people would be better off without sadam still are saying the same thing. how irritating for someone to say they are against the evil war even when it so plainly helps the iraqis live a better life.

i say lets not close our eyes to anybody else, lets liberate all the oppressed people of the world.

simple answer?

sometimes i wonder about what a vast majority of the world thinks free press and the freedom of speech really represent.

take a look at that iraqi information ministry twit that keeps telling the world everyday that everything's going according to hussein's plan... there are still no american troops within 100 miles of baghdad... we're just letting them into the city so we can surround them... and that abrams tank rolling unabated down the boulevard is just an illusion of zionist propaganda...
...thank god he finally fell off the map.

according to every free press agency, the citizens of baghdad are celebrating the fall of the regime - there's even some of that flower-throwing going on, which i completely did not expect. yet, if you look at any state-run arab media outlet, the only thing going on in baghdad is looting. no mentions of the warm greetings for american troops, no mentions of the statues being pulled down by iraqi citizens. aljazeera, the only free press in the arab world, is the only outlet that has used the word "celebration" to describe the scene in the city.

here's a quote from an arab engineer in beirut : "Why didn't he just give up to start with if this was all the resistance he could muster? Instead of wasting all those lives for nothing." i can just hear colin powell muttering "i've been TRYING to tell you that all along!! but did you want a worldwide coalition? noooo..." under his breath...

i was having a long conversation with one of my friends yesterday about aljazeera - and he was complaining that they're lying about US troops killing civilians, targeting journalists, ect...

well... their op/ed is definitely slanted against americans. but they don't fabricate evidence, and they don't get censored by clerics. jazeera is going to end up being the US's greatest ally in that area for that simple reason - everyone in the arab world more or less trusts that outlet, and they're not controlled by any state. they seem to understand that reliance on fact, however slanted, is the media's foundation.

free press has always been the US's best friend - nothing could really change that. eventually, truth will squeeze itself out of the swamp of rumours, lies, half-truths... ect.

but some people are just so used to thier media being nothing but lies that they assume that all media is lies. rather than trusting their own eyes and challenging dogma, they choose to believe what they know to be a lie, but it's a lie they're comfortable with. no amount of mere facts can sway someone like that.

Oh and I hope the marines bust into the hole that Information Minister is hiding in, and in a somewhat cliché movie style, it goes something like this:
Twat: "With my blood and with my..."
Marine: "Just shut the f*ck up already!"
*Bang*
*Shell casing bounces to the floor*
Marine: "You mean that blood?"

...Yet, go in any number of islamic chat rooms or message boards and you get a different perspective. People screaming that everyone must now join Jihad against the US, how the videos of Iraqis cheering is just propaganda, how the US is a far more greater evil replacing a lesser evil, etc.
Trying to even have an intelligent debate in there is impossible, more like talking to a brick wall....

i haven't been to a popular chat room yet where there wasn't alot of infantile and hateful behavior. you're right, it is like talking to a brick wall - so why do it? if you want intelligent debate, a chat room is not the place to go.

rofl

Ok, it`s true that saddam was a dictator, a f*cking opressor.
But I think there is something you haven´t told about.

First: An important reason for their poor situation was the seizure of property made against Iraq. Food for oil.

Second:How many families killed, how many people destroyed, physically, phycologically, how many bombs throwed to innocent people.
Why the heck did they shoot a hotel that was full of journalists? Reuters, spanish tv, ...

Just be in their skin, imagine that after this war you don´t have family neither house, but oh! I'm save now that Saddam has gone.
About the future, oh yes, food from tracks, fights for getting it..., live in a tent, and of course, no oil, cause the savers need it.

Is very easy to judge it from home, sitting in front of our computers.
Do you think an Iraqi student can afford a computer now?
It has to be scary to be now in Iraq.

They'll have a much better chance now of getting computers seeing as a dictator wont be using the money for gold toilets and faucet fittings

ya I saw all those "homeless" dancing in the streets of baghdad today, they look very sad
Why can't you anti war people just finally admit that the removal of the hussein regime is a good thing, and a very courageous thing to do. I can't believe you people actually thought the people were really loyal to hussein, unreal.

this war was totally meaningless. if the US doesnt find any WOMD before the war's end, they will just smuggle them. There's no proof that Saddam is dead, so we must suspect that he is alive.
What anger's me the most is not the actions taken by the US and GB, but the actions, or rather lack of, of the iraqis. If Saddam treated them so bad, as we believe, and they didnt have the will and courage to topple him by themselves, nothing is going to stop another dicator to take the power from these fools. But hey, what do they care, they still have oil, .... no, wait a minute, now that the US and GB have liberated them from the mean old dictator, they will want something. Gee, what could it possibly be, after all, better them than Germany, France and Russia, right.
yeah, you gotta love it.

Yeah, but that was done to put pressure on Saddam to get rid of his weapons of mass destruction. That obviously didn't work. Those sanctions would not be in place if he capitulated.

They shot at the hotel because there were Iraqis in it who shot at them first. And as for the bombs, there were a lot dropped. An amazingly small percentage of them hurt innocent people. You think Saddam would have been so charitable? Baghdad could have been bombed flat, but it wasn't.

That obviously didn't work? I think that's the main problem...its not obvious that Saddam had ANY weapons of mass destruction.

If it was so obvious how come none were found?

Don't get me wrong...I think Saddam is a maniac who should get seriously b***hslapped and removed from power...but I really wish the powers that be had been up front about why they wanted war in the first place.

*sigh*

Some people are ignorant to the very end. People scream and howl about war casualties, when the fact of the matter is Saddam has tortured and executed far more innocent people than any who have been accidentally killed or injured as a result of this conflict, so I fail to see how your logic can stand.

Leaving Saddam in power is by no way "maintaining the peace" as some of you anti-war idiots think. Wake up to reality, you can't pursue peace through diplomatic relations with madmen. Great Britain tried to with Hitler back when he first began his conquests, and look at what that did. I know you will argue that is different, but it is not!! Saddam has constantly thumbed his nose at the UN weapon inspectors, constantly expelling them from the country. You scream the US is fabricating its charges that Iraq had or was pursuing weapons of mass destruction, yet fail to comprehend that maybe, just maybe Saddam had something to hide when he expelled the weapon inspectors several times?

As for your arguement about the food for oil program, please realize that the people of Iraq have been oppressed long before the beginning of the Gulf War. How you can idioticly support a government that has death squads and secret police that would execute you and your family for speaking out against the government, and say you support it in the name of peace, is an insult.

You also argue that if the Iraqis hated Saddam so much, why didnt they just topple him themselves? When a leader has control of the military, and has an intimidating secret police force, the people are well determined to avoid trouble. Sure if all the people rose up they could have toppled him, but when fear is instilled at the individual level, the people are too scared to rise up against its government.

Anyway, since you are too lazy and ignorant to accept the truth, I provided some links for you to study up on.

http://www.worldhistory.com/hussein.htm
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/20...2000173404.asp
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index...UNTRIES%5CIRAQ
http://user.tninet.se/~lto357q/framse1/icphuma.htm <--- very old, so you dumbfucks won't scream it's US propaganda
http://www.iraqfoundation.org/hr/199...xecutions.html
http://mondediplo.com/1998/03/04iraqkn
http://216.26.163.62/2003/me_wmd_04_07.html

For the ignorant, please remember that in 1988 Saddam gassed an entire village of kurds in the north, killing 5,000 and injuring 10,000... FAR MORE than any casualties as a result of this war. Now pu that in your pipe and smoke it!!

EDIT: Oh, and as you can see from the links, the UN constantly protested such things, but never did a thing against it. There's your peaceful negotiations for you!

Again, I'd like to state that I'm glad we're taking out this madman...but I still see a lot of conflicting reports and this annoys me because you can't tell what's truth anymore.

How does your statement above gibe with this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/opinion/31PELL.html

Unfortunately the article isnt complete

I found this link reading http://www.truthaboutwar.org/home.shtml