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Old 12-21-2012, 08:38 PM   #91
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Drunk driving is already prohibited. So it is not the alcohol killing people in the statistic you linked to, it is drunk people breaking the law.
Alcohol in itself can only harm the person drinking the alcohol, while guns harm other living beings.

Nonetheless, the effects of alcohol are not the topic here and just saying: "Hey, there are other things that harm the society, so we can just dismiss critical thinking about guns and their effect." is IMHO somewhat weird.
Shooting someone is already prohibited. It's not the gun killing people, it's people breaking the law.

This whole exercise has been critical thinking. You seem to be against it but there are countless stories of people using guns to stop crime. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/cat.../true-stories/
 
Old 12-21-2012, 09:53 PM   #92
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I totally respect this forum and the views of each person. I also consider that most forum members are somewhat sane and honest and educated to well educated.

Just pointing out so no one gets too mad over this deal.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 02:05 AM   #93
TobiSGD
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You don't get the point. A cars main purpose is to transport something or someone from point A to point B. They are not intended to kill anyone.
This is totally different with guns: Their only and sole purpose is to kill living beings. They have no other use. Just killing.

By the way, by your logic we should ban racing games and movies about racing rather than the cars themselves.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 10:13 AM   #94
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
You don't get the point. A cars main purpose is to transport something or someone from point A to point B. They are not intended to kill anyone.
This is totally different with guns: Their only and sole purpose is to kill living beings. They have no other use. Just killing.

By the way, by your logic we should ban racing games and movies about racing rather than the cars themselves.
I am not willing to ban anything. Drink your beer, drive your car (not in that order), shoot your guns, jump off of high ledges, play your movie, play your game, smoke your pot, it's the nanny state busy-body folks that want to take all that away. I think we've got enough laws governing crap that doesn't need governed. I may think someone is a loser 30 year old kid living in mom's basement that just plays video games, but I'm not going to ban your right to be there.

Last edited by Blinker_Fluid; 12-22-2012 at 10:46 AM.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 11:53 AM   #95
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
I think we've got enough laws governing crap that doesn't need governed.
Sure there are enough laws. But I don't think that making it easy for anyone to kill 20 children is crap that doesn't need to be governed. The exactly opposite is the case.
Those children were murdered with legally purchased weapons and instead of implementing laws that regulate the purchase of weapons it is argued that there need to be more guns, that gun-free zones are nonsense, that there has to be an armed person in every school (totally ignoring that this didn't work in Columbine) and that this all is only caused by violent games, music and movies.
But this is totally missing the point: Were the mother of this murderer not being allowed to legally purchase those guns there may be the possibility that she wouldn't have had those weapons, so that the murderer would have to buy those weapons illegally, which should be much more expensive and may be even have lead to the immediate arrest of the murderer when trying to buy the weapons. If the death of only one of the victims could have been avoided it is a thousand times more worth than the right of someone to bear arms (which is worth a discussion on its own, if you actually look at the 2nd amendment). As long as your right to bear arms is worth more to you than the live of innocent people, including children, incidents like this will happen again and again. It is up to you to think about which is the right way to go.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 12-22-2012 at 11:54 AM.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #96
gnashley
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So, didn't anyone see the bizarre performance by Wayne LaPierre(V.P of the NRA) yesterday? During the whole performance, I was struck at how much the tone and content, and the wild look in his eye reminded me of such performances by Donald Rumsfield. Very scary, indeed, to see such crassness.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 01:55 PM   #97
linuxpokernut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
You don't get the point. A cars main purpose is to transport something or someone from point A to point B. They are not intended to kill anyone.
This is totally different with guns: Their only and sole purpose is to kill living beings. They have no other use. Just killing.

By the way, by your logic we should ban racing games and movies about racing rather than the cars themselves.
Hogwash. They can stop an attacker without being fired in many cases, and can stop an attacker without killing them after being discharged in many cases.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 02:53 PM   #98
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My point is that people do crazy things and don't follow any logic on how one should live.

If you don't believe
"
Number of road traffic deaths
Over 1.2 million people die each year on the world’s roads, and between 20 and 50 million suffer non-fatal injuries"

is a crazy number that no one seems to care about then I am the goof. I'd be for more training for all deaths, be it from driving, drugs, heart attacks stroke and cancer. All those dwarf the number of people murdered each year by 1000's to one. Just because a car's sole use isn't to kill it does a very good job at it.

The responsibility of society is to keep danger away from stupid people I agree. We should stop violent movies, music and games just as we keep drugs, cigarettes and alcohol and porn from kids. Teach children responsibility and moral issues in school. Teach them how bad it is to murder, drive reckless, and eat yourself into death. Fix the mind and the machines will follow.

This particular kook was a copy cat kook. He wanted attention. If the media would stop using his name, likeness and not refer to him at all then the next kook would be less likely to want the same or more attention. His mind was the issue. He could have murdered that many children just like the guy in China did a few years ago with a knife. It is just not that difficult to kill a person.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 05:19 PM   #99
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For these kids shot down in the school in the USA it didn't matter if other people are killed by cars. It didn't matter that in China someone attacked school kids with a knife. It didn't matter that people exist that think driving drunk would be a good idea. It didn't matter that there are people that play violent games or watch violent movies (and I still see a lack of evidence that there is a causal relation).

What did matter was that a man with a mental illness had easy access to guns. Those children aren't dead because of games/movies, alcohol or cars, they are dead because they were shot. Easy as that. Why is it so hard for US-Americans to understand that guns are intended for killing? And why is it so easy to dismiss any study that tells them that more guns equal more violence? Or to see that gun control simply works in other countries?
 
Old 12-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Why is it so hard for US-Americans to understand that guns are intended for killing? And why is it so easy to dismiss any study that tells them that more guns equal more violence? Or to see that gun control simply works in other countries?
Because, in the U.S., guns = manhood.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 07:25 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
Because, in the U.S., guns = manhood.
If manhood has a higher rank than the well-being of their citizens than there is something seriously wrong and discussions about anything else than exactly that problem will bring nothing.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 07:42 PM   #102
m.a.l.'s pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
If manhood has a higher rank than the well-being of their citizens than there is something seriously wrong and discussions about anything else than exactly that problem will bring nothing.
There's something seriously wrong, without question. And I have very little hope that the situation will improve here. Messed up aspect of U.S. culture.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 07:58 PM   #103
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
I'd imagine with the right resolve we could do wonderful things. A bunch of farmers managed to do it over 200 years ago to one of the most powerful armies in the world.
That "bunch of farmers" weren't fighting a government that had the ability to wipe out entire populations with the press of a button.

Military technology has come a long way. You're deluding yourself if you believe that your gun is going to protect you from the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
You keep using that word... "Reasonable" Is it the gun that is scaring you?
Haha. No, guns don't scare me. Nothing scares me. However, I would argue that it is in fact fear that makes you cling to your guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
I might ask if there is so much excitement over guns why are the other causes ignored?
You guys seem to be thinking that it's all-or-nothing, when that's not the case at all.

Guns certainly have their place in society. What many of the posters to this thread seem to be saying is that there is simply a need for stricter controls over access to high powered weapons, as in every other first world country where such controls have demonstrably and indisputably worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
it's the nanny state busy-body folks that want to take all that away.
Not that it bothers me because I'm a married, catholic father of two, but what is your stance on gay marriage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
Messed up aspect of U.S. culture.
Let me say this: None of my opinions come from any anti-American sentiment. I'm not anti-American in any way, shape or form. I have family there. I believe your country is the greatest in the world. Many of the world's most talented people live there. Much of my favourite music comes from there, as do many of my favourite movies and TV shows. My car has an American engine in it. I use an American Linux distribution.

Whenever I meet an American, I feel an instant bond with them, as if we are old friends. I have a lot of respect for you and your country. We have a lot in common.

There's just this fly in the ointment. It's saddening.

Last edited by rkelsen; 12-22-2012 at 09:57 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #104
jamison20000e
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oops remove this mistake

Last edited by jamison20000e; 07-03-2013 at 11:33 AM.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #105
jamison20000e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
...stop crime....
guns create problems we can fix with bombs that create problems we can fix with guns.∞.. .edu Tools.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 07-04-2013 at 08:45 AM.
 
  


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