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Originally Posted by Nbiser
(Post 4850904)
What is this about kidnapping people from around the world? I have never heard of that before.
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For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
Your government kidnaps, tortures, makes action against human rights, but yet:
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the government hasn't been tyrannical enough to warrant our standing up and fighting
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So when do you stand up and fight? When it is you that get kidnapped and tortured, not some random stranger?
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I was pointing out that just because my country, the US is a major super power doesn't mean that it will not fall. Rome was also a major military super power, but it fell as well.
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That Rome could be invaded by other peoples was a symptom of the fall, not the cause. Rome fell because of political reasons. Guns won't help there.
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Don't forget, many gun owners in the US hunt (I hunt) and the animals we hunt don't stand still and say 'shoot me' they are running or flying to get away from us.
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Of course, they are unarmed and have no other chance than to run away. You are totally safe.
A criminal with a weapon will not do the same, he will charge you, he will shoot at you, he will try to kill you. Do you really think the situation is the same?
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I don't think that all of the training that our police receive is a waste of tax dollars; most of the gun owners in the US aren't allowed to carry their guns around which means that the police need training; even if we were allowed to carry our guns around we might not be at a scene of a shooting.
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So basically you say: the police needs training for the case that armed civilians without training aren't available.
Why do policemen need training, but civilians don't?
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They may have been legally bought, but they weren't being carried legally, I highly doubt they had concealed carry permits.
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They wouldn't have carried them illegally if they wouldn't be able to get them in the first place.
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This does indeed explain the high rate of violent crimes. We gun owners can't carry our guns to Walmart or the movie theater, so the bad guys are made more bold. They know that they can kill many people before the police get there.
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Actually, no it doesn't explain that. In countries with gun control the citizens are also not allowed to carry guns around, so the bad guys have the same situation as in your country, were you can't carry your weapons to every place, but nonetheless is the crime rate with guns involved in your country much higher than in any other western country with gun control.
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They know that they can kill many people before the police get there. If we were allowed to carry our guns around with us the bad guys would get shot down before they could kill very many people.
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Or more people would get shot, including the "defender", because the "defender" is untrained and can't handle the situation properly. Just owning a gun does not give you magically the ability to do that, extensive training does.
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I've read very many stories that go along these lines: ' There was a man at an armed bank robbery that had a concealed carry permit. This man pinned the armed robber down until the police got there."
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I have seen many stories that go like this: "There was this man with his legally purchased weapons and he shot down innocent children and other civilians."
Why does your story count as argument against gun control, but the other story does not count as argument for gun control?