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Old 05-09-2011, 02:26 PM   #16
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enine View Post
When Microsoft lost the court case they switched the program to where if an OEM offers windows exclusively they get each license at a reduced cost. That works legally the same way as a store reward card or coupon since they are not requiring an OEM to be exclusive to be able to buy the OEM copy but rather rewarding them with a discount for being exclusive.
Which is a neat example of legal gymnastics...

I disagee that it works like store reward cards or coupon cards though, if you go to a different store there is no legal way that the 'other' store can increase costs to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bill View Post
Does anyone sell computers without Windows? I know that despite their success in the Ubuntu endeavor, Dell stopped...
If dell was 'sucessful' with linux, then why would they hide the linux/free dos options? BTW, dell still does sell a fair few systems with linux, but last I looked you wont find them in the 'home' section. They are all in 'small and meduim business' or 'enterprise'.

Lots of places where you can get desktops/servers without windows. Hard to find from the corporaqte manufacturers, but there are there. Much easier to build your own, or get a custom speced 'white box'.

Laptops, much harder to get sans-OS. Back when it was easy to get DIY laptops, it wasnt that hard to build a OS-free laptop, but DIY laptops are much harder to find now. There is always System 76, Zareason, etc.. But they dont make the laptops, they just resell laptops maunfactured by sombody else...and you'll end up paying more from them than you would getting the same laptop, with windows, through normal channels.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 02:34 PM   #17
baldy3105
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Ah, you have discovered the meaning of "Microsoft Tax". If you keep reading you will find that you are only paying for the right to use Microsofts software for an undefined period of period of time, you are not in fact buying it at all.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 03:07 PM   #18
John VV
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Quote:
Ah, you have discovered the meaning of "Microsoft Tax". If you keep reading you will find that you are only paying for the right to use Microsofts software for an undefined period of period of time, you are not in fact buying it at all.
How true
The MS tax is a LEASE
YOU DO NOT own that copy of MS windows 7 you are only paying a one time lease payment .

at least it is not a monthly MS tax payment .
 
Old 05-09-2011, 04:29 PM   #19
Latios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bill View Post
Does anyone sell computers without Windows? I know that despite their success in the Ubuntu endeavor, Dell stopped...
I have a Dell inspiron bought with FreeDOS (and printed copy of GPL ) but that was like 2006 (and the computer itself is from 2005, bought it at discount cause the shop wanted to get rid of old stock)

In fact i can understand - This one was stuck for a year and nobody bought it, and when i asked why - "because it comes without Windows"
 
Old 05-09-2011, 05:46 PM   #20
MBybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bill View Post
Does anyone sell computers without Windows? I know that despite their success in the Ubuntu endeavor, Dell stopped...
System76. I actually am ordering my next machine from them.
iXSystems - some interesting boxes, but not really the features I like.
Dell has them here, but seems like a pretty lame offering.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 06:02 PM   #21
Latios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBybee View Post
Dell has them here, but seems like a pretty lame offering.
http://imbx.us/LmI7.png
 
Old 05-09-2011, 06:44 PM   #22
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldy3105 View Post
Ah, you have discovered the meaning of "Microsoft Tax". If you keep reading you will find that you are only paying for the right to use Microsofts software for an undefined period of period of time, you are not in fact buying it at all.
True, but not that different to 'buying' audio files from apple, amazon, etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBybee View Post
System76. I actually am ordering my next machine from them.
iXSystems - some interesting boxes, but not really the features I like.
Dell has them here, but seems like a pretty lame offering.
If your in the US (I'm asume from system 76 you'd have to be in the US, UK or Canada) and for wantever reason dont want to biuld your own system, then have a look at ibuypower-

http://www.ibuypower.com/

Yeah, I know, they say 'gaming' systems, but thats just marketing. Lots of choices, you can spec everything in the system.

BTW, the XPS 7100 is part of why I REALLY dislike dell with its lame linux choices. The 'n' series (linux), is $649, X4 945, 500GB HDD, ATI 5670. The 'standard' version is $549, X4 945, 1TB HDD, ATI 5450 with windows. The retail price difference between a 5450 and 5670 is about $25, same with the price different between the HDDs.

So for an extra $100 you get linux installed, a slightly faster video card, and half the storage space. Sounds like a #$^&! deal to me.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latios View Post
LOL. Well noticed.
 
Old 05-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #23
SigTerm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John VV View Post
YOU DO NOT own that copy of MS windows 7 you are only paying a one time lease payment .
AFAIK, all software (including GPL) licenses work this way - you get a permission to use software as long as abide by license agreement, but you never own the software. The only person that owns (means he/she can do anything with it without any restriction) software is copyright holder. Exceptions from rule are public domain code and probably MIT/BSD licensed software, plus some proprietary developers may offer an extremely expensive license that will grant you source code access and permission to make derivatives (which will probably cost at least few hundreds of thousands of USDs).
 
Old 05-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #24
Latios
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In this 7100 the 1 GiB drive is free upgrade

Still, the choice is bad, and i see no reason to buy a branded desktop computer. Buying standard hardware and assembling is so much better in any sense
 
Old 05-09-2011, 07:48 PM   #25
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latios View Post
In this 7100 the 1 GiB drive is free upgrade
Heh, I didnt notice that. But you mean TB, not GiB (or TiB, the 'i' basicly means binary sized, and we all know that HDD manufacturers dont use the smaller looking binary values)
 
Old 05-09-2011, 09:51 PM   #26
enine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Which is a neat example of legal gymnastics...

I disagee that it works like store reward cards or coupon cards though, if you go to a different store there is no legal way that the 'other' store can increase costs to you.
I didn't say anything about an other store increasing costs, thats where the courts decided, you can't increase costs, only decrease. So Microsoft makes the cost $89 per copy of windows for everyone and OEM's who will sell windows exclusively get it for $80 (among other discounts) and marks up their profit. The non exclusive oem has to pay the full $89 then mark up their profit on top of that.
 
Old 05-10-2011, 12:50 PM   #27
MBybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
True, but not that different to 'buying' audio files from apple, amazon, etc..

If your in the US (I'm asume from system 76 you'd have to be in the US, UK or Canada) and for wantever reason dont want to biuld your own system, then have a look at ibuypower-

http://www.ibuypower.com/

Yeah, I know, they say 'gaming' systems, but thats just marketing. Lots of choices, you can spec everything in the system.
Actually, I was more looking at their laptops (otherwise yes, I build my machines). System76 had a really great technical helpdesk who was able to answer all of my questions (even down to the specific chipset for their firewire and intel cards). They are also assembled in California. I don't see any Linux laptops on iBuyPower, so I think I'll stick with System76 for now. Thanks though - always good to learn of another new vendor!
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:19 PM   #28
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enine View Post
I didn't say anything about an other store increasing costs, thats where the courts decided, you can't increase costs, only decrease. So Microsoft makes the cost $89 per copy of windows for everyone and OEM's who will sell windows exclusively get it for $80 (among other discounts) and marks up their profit. The non exclusive oem has to pay the full $89 then mark up their profit on top of that.
Removing 'discount' means increasing costs for all practical purposes.

I'd doubt that any of the big corporate manufacturers are paying anything like $80. Honestly, I'd doubt that even 'non-exclusive' manufacturers, or even assemblers who have do any serious volume are paying $89...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBybee View Post
Actually, I was more looking at their laptops (otherwise yes, I build my machines). System76 had a really great technical helpdesk who was able to answer all of my questions (even down to the specific chipset for their firewire and intel cards). They are also assembled in California. I don't see any Linux laptops on iBuyPower, so I think I'll stick with System76 for now. Thanks though - always good to learn of another new vendor!
Nah, you wont find any linux laptops, or even no OS laptops at ibuypower. They just resell bigger manufacturers laptops (same as system 76 and zareason AFAIK).

Assembled in California? *blinks* I think I've seen somebody say that zareason desktops are, or at least were, but I've never got any confirmation on that. Neither system 76 or zareason list anything about it on the company websites, which sems odd if its true.
 
Old 05-10-2011, 08:42 PM   #29
enine
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Big difference between removing a discount and increasing price. The list price is published, used to be $89. with the exclusive discount you could get it for $80 without exclusive you get it for $89, therefore no increase in price, just list or discount.
 
Old 05-12-2011, 04:28 PM   #30
MBybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Assembled in California? *blinks* I think I've seen somebody say that zareason desktops are, or at least were, but I've never got any confirmation on that. Neither system 76 or zareason list anything about it on the company websites, which sems odd if its true.
From a direct email question I had for them: " We assemble, load, test, and ship our laptops from California."

It is odd that this is not on their site.
 
  


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