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Old 12-15-2010, 11:45 PM   #481
TheIndependentAquarius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
"fellas"? College fellows?
Well "he" used to write fellas and I found that to be stylish! but now I regret having used it, it makes no sense to distort further a standard less language!

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
It may be an example of retaining old forms; AFAIK it was natural ~200 years ago.
If it was technically right 200 years ago, then let me put it that way only because I cannot start referring to books to find what was valid 200 years back which isn't now

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
So it would not be unusual for North Indians to need (written) English for official purposes and (spoken) Hindi for general use and a native language at home and with other locals? I knew English is not widely spoken in the North but did not realise it was required at all. How does justice function if the language of the courts is English and few are fluent?
Here in Delhi, we have people from all over India so Hindi is used here as a common language, I have not heard someone talking in some local language here, but it was not the case when 2 years back I was in "Pune" which is in "Maharashtra" state. They speak Marathi there and hate north Indians, ah well, I can't tell you how much they hate north Indians!! and they think that all north Indians belong to either Uttar Pradesh or "Bihar" I had a hard time convincing them that I am from Kashmir which is in no way related to Bihar!!

Okay but I should not blame them so much because when we north Indians talk about some South Indian person, we always say, He is a Madrasi LOL!!

and secondly, Hindi is the official written language, the official documents are prepared in English, and you really thought that people in courts would be arguing in English???

and we do talk in English when some senior officer pays a visit or we if talking to the director of the company etc.

and I found the following link to be interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hindi_agitations

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
For example teachers were instructed to stop correcting students who spoke with local accents. And partly it comes from when English was left to the ordinary people while the rulers used French and the educated used Latin (detailed earlier in this thread). ... At school, in English writing classes, expressiveness is valued above correctness and examiners are told not to deduct many marks for spelling and grammar
You know what, I have started hating English It is a waste of effort to try for perfection in English Is there any use of learning a language where the spellings and grammar are not corrected??? and this word: realise can also be written as realize well then I think it shouldn't be considered wrong if I write it as realice instead??

Last edited by TheIndependentAquarius; 12-16-2010 at 02:44 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old 12-16-2010, 12:00 AM   #482
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You know what, I have started hating English It is a waste of effort to try for perfection in English
English is an imperfect language.
 
Old 12-16-2010, 11:11 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
I had a hard time convincing them that I am from Kashmir ...

Okay but I should not blame them so much because when we north Indians talk about some South Indian person, we always say, He is a Madrasi LOL!!

and secondly, Hindi is the official written language, the official documents are prepared in English, and you really thought that people in courts would be arguing in English???
Thanks for the education Anisha

Kashmir. So beautiful and so troubled, I understand.

Hey! They should keep up with the times -- Madras became Chennai in 1996!

When you said the Hindi was the official language of India, it did not occur to me that there might different official spoken and written languages! Hereabouts courts conducted their business in English (spoken and written) and have only recently started using Tamil in some cases.

Wikipedia says Hindi in the Devanagari script is the official language of the Union and English the "subsidiary official language".
 
Old 12-17-2010, 12:04 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
When you said the Hindi was the official language of India, it did not occur to me that there might different official spoken and written languages! Hereabouts courts conducted their business in English (spoken and written) and have only recently started using Tamil in some cases.
Is there something called official languages for the states? I am not sure because I lived in south of Gujarat state for near about 15 years, many people couldn't speak Hindi properly there, so there's no question of them speaking English! I think they must be using the local language i.e. Gujarati in the courts there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
Kashmir. So beautiful and so troubled, I understand.
I am Kashmiri Pandit, we left the valley when I had completed my 1st standard class, for never to return back!

Last edited by TheIndependentAquarius; 12-17-2010 at 12:11 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 12:23 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
You know what, I have started hating English It is a waste of effort to try for perfection in English Is there any use of learning a language where the spellings and grammar are not corrected??? and this word: realise can also be written as realize well then I think it shouldn't be considered wrong if I write it as realice instead??
Quote:
Last edited by Anisha Kaul; Today at 01:44 AM. Reason: typo
Hehehe, I had to smile. A selfish smile, I know, but I had too.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 01:25 AM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
Is there something called official languages for the states? I am not sure because I lived in south of Gujarat state for near about 15 years, many people couldn't speak Hindi properly there, so there's no question of them speaking English! I think they must be using the local language i.e. Gujarati in the courts there.

I am Kashmiri Pandit, we left the valley when I had completed my 1st standard class, for never to return back!
Wikipedia list official languages for Tamil Nadu (Tamil) and for Puducherry (Tamil and French) but not for Gujarat. Many people in Tamil Nadu can't speak Hindi at all but can speak English.

"for never to return back" is not perfect (!): both "for" and "back" are redundant leaving the slightly poetic and nicely rhythmic "never to return".

It must have been a wrench to be forced from your native place by events but presumably there was little choice and there is no benefit in "crying over spilt milk".
 
Old 12-17-2010, 08:48 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
and this word: realise can also be written as realize
realise is the British English spelling, realize (and any z for s) is the US English spelling. Obviously, the British way is correct.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 09:31 AM   #488
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realize (and any z for s) is the US English spelling.
Zo you're zaying I've been uzing United Ztatez Englizh all wrong?

(I know I said I was taking a break from General, but I couldn't resist this one )

Last edited by MrCode; 12-17-2010 at 09:32 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 09:54 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by MrCode View Post
Zo you're zaying I've been uzing United Ztatez Englizh all wrong?
Yez, you haz.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 10:49 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
"for never to return back" is not perfect (!): both "for" and "back" are redundant leaving the slightly poetic and nicely rhythmic "never to return".
I thought "return" and "back" should be redundant?? Am I wrong?

and secondly you didn't lay your "expert" comments on the post 448, it was followed up by two contradictory posts i.e. 449 and 452?
 
Old 12-17-2010, 11:03 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
I thought "return" and "back" should be redundant?? Am I wrong?
Washington State University doesn't think so.

Also, I laughed when I realized the URL was:
Code:
http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/returnback.html
and thought of brianL.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 11:11 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
I thought "return" and "back" should be redundant?? Am I wrong?

and secondly you didn't lay your "expert" comments on the post 448, it was followed up by two contradictory posts i.e. 449 and 452?
Hello Anisha, good morning madam Did you not sleep well?

Assuming "for never to return back" means you have not and will not go back then:
  • If the initial "for" is retained then what follows must be a duration so "for ever".
  • As you wrote, "back" is redundant when used with "return" so "never to return" or "never to go back".
 
Old 12-17-2010, 11:20 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by catkin View Post
Hello Anisha, good morning madam Did you not sleep well?
Ohhh, wow, so you like sarcasm too?? May I know what sin of mine made you write that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
Assuming "for never to return back" means you have not and will not go back then:
  • If the initial "for" is retained then what follows must be a duration so "for ever".
  • As you wrote, "back" is redundant when used with "return" so "never to return" or "never to go back".
That was clarifying, thanks!
 
Old 12-17-2010, 11:44 PM   #494
catkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
I thought "return" and "back" should be redundant?? Am I wrong?

and secondly you didn't lay your "expert" comments on the post 448, it was followed up by two contradictory posts i.e. 449 and 452?
What is the significance of the quotes around the word expert above?

Post 448 was about the use of two "on"s in "I am not aware of how things go on, on a bidding site" (the text was given in QUOTE tags so cannot easily be quoted here, hence the suggestion to use CODE tags in preference to QUOTE tags in this thread).

449 was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCode View Post
I think the more correct syntax would be to leave the first "on" off; it's technically unnecessary.

"I am not aware of how things go on a bidding site."

Actually, I think a more appropriate form of that would be more like:

"I am not aware of how things work on a bidding site."
452 was in response to 449:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwc101 View Post
What about leaving off the second on instead?... I'd have to disagree and say that the two on's are necessary. For example, using two had's is perfectly valid:I think this is by far the most sensible approach. There are hundreds of different ways of saying the same thing.
In the sentence "I am not aware of how things go on, on a bidding site" the consecutive "on"s are not easy for the reader so are best avoided even if they were correct. MrCode rightly suggested that the "on" in "go on" is unnecessary. "go on" is actually wrong, as becomes obvious when "go on" is changed to its synonym "continue", making the sentence "I am not aware of how things continue, on a bidding site".

In any case go is a word with many -- too many -- meanings so meaning is more exactly conveyed by using a more specific word such as the "work" that pwc101 suggested.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 11:56 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
Ohhh, wow, so you like sarcasm too?? May I know what sin of mine made you write that?
Not sarcasm because there was nothing in it to wound or ridicule. Sarcasm is:
Code:
1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
I sensed you are not your usual bright and light self this morning. I did not want to ignore it so acknowledged it -- intended to be humorously -- by the double greeting, the "madam" and the solicitous enquiry.
 
  


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