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Old 04-22-2011, 02:52 PM   #31
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Bashing Microsoft is simply wrong because it isn't doing anything good to the Linux community. It just let you look like a Linux fanboy.
Would you please be so kind to explain to me why bashing Microsoft on a Linux forum helps to fight Microsoft?
How is bashing their products on a Linux forum is cutting their profits?

If you want to bring down Microsoft, wouldn't it be a way better tactic to discuss fair about it's pros and cons in comparison to Linux, instead of simple bashing the product? Or spreading FUD like many Linux fanboys do (something like "I have to constantly update my system, it will restart every half an hour and crashes 5 times in between." or "I have to re-install every 2 months and re-installing will cost me 2 days.", as I have seen many times).
If you think that Linux is the better system (at least I do) then prove it. Just saying "Microsoft is evil, so I have to bash their products." will not bring anything good to Linux and the community.

This reminds me of Kenny_Strawn, haven't seen him for a while here.
I find it that using Linux gives me a more reliable system, less resource hog, and much more responsive...

More than that, i have no knowledge of W$ inner works to discuss it on technical grounds... so my perspective as an end user is what i said... more reliability/availability better use of resources.

But that doesnt take any validity of what i stated about M$... I wish i could use Catia or Autodesk Inventor, or Pro Engineer in Linux ( PTC discontinued it with wildfire 3.0 ) but i simply cannot... now who should i blame for that...!?

I wish a webcam i have in a laptop as well as a wireless card would work OOTB, but they don't... again... who should i blame for that...!?
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:04 PM   #32
SigTerm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
But that doesnt take any validity of what i stated about M$... I wish i could use Catia or Autodesk Inventor, or Pro Engineer in Linux ( PTC discontinued it with wildfire 3.0 ) but i simply cannot... now who should i blame for that...!?
You should blame developer's of Catia, Autodesk Inventor and Pro Engineer, obviously. They decided which platform to support. On other hand, discussion might go like this ("there is no demand for our product on linux system").

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
I wish a webcam i have in a laptop as well as a wireless card would work OOTB, but they don't... again... who should i blame for that...!?
You should blame hardware manufacturer.

Last edited by SigTerm; 04-22-2011 at 03:05 PM.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:05 PM   #33
MrCode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD
This reminds me of Kenny_Strawn, haven't seen him for a while here.
He's been banned (temporarily). That's why you haven't seen him posting for a while.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:11 PM   #34
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
I wish i could use Catia or Autodesk Inventor, or Pro Engineer in Linux ( PTC discontinued it with wildfire 3.0 ) but i simply cannot... now who should i blame for that...!?
Catia: Dassault Systèmes for not making a Linux version.
Autodesk Inventor: Autodesk for not making a Linux version.
Pro Engineer: PTC for not making a Linux version.

No one is forcing them to not build a Linux version, and I doubt that they are paid by Microsoft to only make Windows versions. But I may be wrong here, and if I am please correct me.

Quote:
I wish a webcam i have in a laptop as well as a wireless card would work OOTB, but they don't... again... who should i blame for that...!?
Yourself, for not buying Linux compatible hardware. If you would buy Linux compatible hardware you would support companies that actually support Linux. Would be way better than simply bashing Microsoft.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:17 PM   #35
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
You should blame developer's of Catia, Autodesk Inventor and Pro Engineer, obviously. They decided which platform to support. On other hand, discussion might go like this ("there is no demand for our product on linux system").


You should blame hardware manufacturer.
Hi SigTerm,

I undestand... but i do feel that M$ pays HW vendors for them to develop FW only for W$ platforms... so, HW vendors are tied to a market manipulation originated by M$...

Same with SW vendores...

It is known that HPC computing is done, for reasons of system availability, and uptime in *NIX platforms... therefore, it seems rather stange to me that SW vendors say "there is no demand for my product in Linux"...

Where i work, the number crunching is done in *NIX ( Sparc Solaris on Sun Blade system ) and RedHat.

CAD is done in W$ 7 ( Catia 6.0 and Pro Engineer Wf 5.0 )... now...

I believe that a much tighter workflow would ensue if all was done on the same platform/system...

Believe me, within Aerospace/Defense/Naval/Dutomotive Industries there would be a much wider market share for CAD applications on Linux, if there were such products available...
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:21 PM   #36
Alexvader
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Hi TobiSGD

I woudn't swear on this... but knowing what i know about how M$ deals with concepts like Anti-Trust, and anti-monopoly regulations, i wouldnt be surprised if M$ actually paid them to develop only for M$ OSes...
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:32 PM   #37
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
I undestand... but i do feel that M$ pays HW vendors for them to develop FW only for W$ platforms... so, HW vendors are tied to a market manipulation originated by M$...
Quote:
I woudn't swear on this... but knowing what i know about how M$ deals with concepts like Anti-Trust, and anti-monopoly regulations, i wouldnt be surprised if M$ actually paid them to develop only for M$ OSes...
You may even be right. But without a prove for that it is simply FUD, and spreading FUD is helping no one. In my opinion (as stated above) it does even do harm to the community.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:46 PM   #38
baldy3105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
Hi TobiSGD

I wouldn't swear on this... but knowing what I know about how M$ deals with concepts like Anti-Trust, and anti-monopoly regulations, i wouldn't be surprised if M$ actually paid them to develop only for M$ OSes...
Given Microsoft's predilection for bending the law to its breaking point (and sometimes beyond) it would not surprise me at all.

And in answer to a question above, I see a few people who must be Microsoft employees. Who else would come to a Linux forum like this and defend Microsoft and windows as strenuously as they do? Its a Linux site, everyone is going to be bashing MS and Windows, its just what you expect no? Its like going into a church and telling them that actually satan is pretty decent chap. You need some kind of serious motivation otherwise why would you bother when you know you'll be wasting your breath?

Many people here think Microsoft products are shoddy and unstable and they have formed that opinion over many decades of struggling with it. So deal with it.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 03:54 PM   #39
SigTerm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
Believe me, within Aerospace/Defense/Naval/Dutomotive Industries there would be a much wider market share for CAD applications on Linux, if there were such products available...
I'd recommend to read this discussion.
IMO, if you (by any chance) represent a large company, then you could attempt to make deal with individual software developers - if they're greedy enough, then they'll port their app to your platform, if it is profitable for them.

On other hand, if the company you work for is already using windows version of software, then such deal most likely will not be made, because paying developers for making a port will not be profitable for your company (they already have windows licenses, so why bother?) - making a port will be more expensive than purchasing operating systems. I'd recommend to look at the situation from the position of cost/profit - it makes things simpler. Besides, for special/expensive software like autodesk inventor operating system comes as addition - in such situation you select operating system based on product you want to use, because OS costs less than the product it should support. Which means that you'll probably have to use virtual machines or multiple computers for a while.

Last edited by SigTerm; 04-22-2011 at 03:55 PM.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 04:07 PM   #40
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldy3105 View Post
Who else would come to a Linux forum like this and defend Microsoft and windows as strenuously as they do? Its a Linux site, everyone is going to be bashing MS and Windows, its just what you expect no?
Have you read any of my posts? I am not defending Microsoft or Windows, all I say is that bashing them is doing harm to the community, just because most of the bashers look like mindless zealots.
We can do it better by giving it a fair comparison.

By the way, if we go the religious way, I wouldn't consider Linux vs. Windows in any way to be like God vs. Satan or Good vs. Evil. I would think it is more like Christian God vs. Allah or something similar. Which is the better religion? What do you think about fanatics (on both sides)?
But anyways, this is not the place to talk about religion.
 
Old 04-22-2011, 05:39 PM   #41
rob.rice
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Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Unix is a real OS. Windows isn't. Microsoft are fraudsters and scammers preying on the ignorant and the weak... like drug pushers. I can understand how the common home user could get suckered into using Windoz, but how can there still be so many enterprise users??? They have to get a clue, especially since we now have products like OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird. Humanity can't progress with Microsoft. It must be voted off the boat.
to compare drug dealers with microshaft is very very insulting to drug dealers

after all drug users have consumer protection it's called the police

however there is no consumer protection for computer users

like any other big corporation MicroShaft owns enough politicians that it can't be held responsible in court the last anti trust case is a glaring example of this
in the settlement of that case microshaft was given a stronger lock on the soft ware market in that information about the API can be withheld from All but the largest software houses
 
Old 04-22-2011, 06:30 PM   #42
tiredofbilkyyaforallican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice View Post
to compare drug dealers with microshaft is very very insulting to drug dealers

after all drug users have consumer protection it's called the police

however there is no consumer protection for computer users

like any other big corporation MicroShaft owns enough politicians that it can't be held responsible in court the last anti trust case is a glaring example of this
in the settlement of that case microshaft was given a stronger lock on the soft ware market in that information about the API can be withheld from All but the largest software houses
+1
I'm still curious as to how many politicians and judges M$ has in their pockets! but Yes windoze does have its place read my sig

Last edited by tiredofbilkyyaforallican; 04-22-2011 at 06:36 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 01:34 PM   #43
fbsduser
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Originally Posted by alan_ri View Post
As you will probably notice this post will be made from a Winblows Vshitsta machine. So, a long story shortened, after a long long time I needed to delete a folder in Vshitsta and of course things weren't simple.

Thing didn't want to be deleted, so I used Google, I found a page and these were the instructions;


Did that........ and guess what, folder is still there. Original link is here.

Man, we who use Linux are really happy people.
Thyat procedure made me laugh, I mean, in both my *NIX's a simple "sudo rm -fR SOMEDIR" is enough to get rid of any troublesome folder.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 01:51 PM   #44
alan_ri
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@fbsduser

You know what, what you said was one of the reasons why I started this thread and you know what is even more funny? Person who wrote the instructions, after step number 30 said
Quote:
Good Luck!!!
 
Old 04-24-2011, 06:10 AM   #45
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexvader View Post
Hi SigTerm,

I undestand... but i do feel that M$ pays HW vendors for them to develop FW only for W$ platforms... so, HW vendors are tied to a market manipulation originated by M$...

Same with SW vendores...
Pay to get development for only windows platforms? Microsoft? I'd doubt it is common, if it happens at all.

Microsoft is far more likely to be more subtle about it.

IMO they would spead a little FUD- if you release under the GPL you cant 'own' the code anymore, people will see all your clever code and can steal it, if its not GPL the distros cant/wont use it, open soruce makes copyright infringement easier, etc..

Then they would move on to a bit of carrot and stick- if you release your drivers/firmware or software as open source/release a linux port of your software, you arent showing any loyalty to microsoft. If you arent loyal to microsoft, then releasing the specs for the new windows versions isnt something we would feel comfortable doing....

That would really hurt the hardware manufacturers, they would be a long way behind the other manufacturers if they had to wait untill the release of the next windows version before they could start doing any development for that platform.

With hardware, microsoft also has the option of not including drivers for the next version of windows released as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice View Post
to compare drug dealers with microshaft is very very insulting to drug dealers

after all drug users have consumer protection it's called the police

however there is no consumer protection for computer users
Umm....maybe where you are that idea would work, but most places I've been or heard of getting the police involved is not a good idea.

I know somebody who actually did report a 'problem' with a drug deal to the police, surprise, surprise he ended up with the police busting him, and the dealer who sold him the stuff was raided but wasnt caught. The guy who reported ended up having to leave that town, it got pretty unheathly after that.

Last edited by cascade9; 04-24-2011 at 06:14 AM.
 
  


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