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Old 06-29-2011, 01:29 PM   #31
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
With all due respect Dugan, I've stated, "when you are ready to reason." That is, in my opinion you are BEING unreasonable in these instances. Not that he is an unreasonable person.
And how was he being unreasonable?

Consider your answer carefully, because disagreeing with or "challenging" you is not by definition being unreasonable.

Quote:
not, "Present your challenge, and we can debate."
Quote:
Show me two passages that to you are inconsistent, and I'll find another that reconciles the two.
No-one would take that as anything but "present your challenge and we can debate."

Last edited by dugan; 06-29-2011 at 02:24 PM.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 02:09 PM   #32
unSpawn
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While christianity has given laity many things ranging from hours-long thundering sermons, incorporated heathen traditions (Mithras), collaborators (Vatican City) and commercial opportunities (like christmas) to glam rock (Stryper?), promiscuous clergy and say Dante's works I do hope "A Layman's Reflections:" marks the first and last installment of that planned series of "articles" unless the OP dramatically improves requisite writing and debating skills. Constructively speaking there's no catchy title, no flow inside the "article" and no interesting pay-off, not to mention the fact that this method of trying to scare people towards the central deity in the book the OP mentioned by relying on the one referred to as Son of the Morning to me seems a decidedly weak move, reminiscent of the Middle ages or the time nobody actually expected a Spanish Inquisition.

As far as inconsistencies goes it is interesting to note that the books central deity, who must be viewed as omnipresent and omnipotent for things to work, was unable or unwilling to prevent and mitigate Lucifer's Fall. As an exponent of the "western" school of thought (I mean those schools of thought not centered on wholeness) and plot-wise Lucifer's role is crucial, as without him there is no schism, no inequity, no discrimination between unholy and holy. Those without true beliefs therefore must embrace and use Evil as they possess no compelling means to attract attention the right way...
 
Old 06-29-2011, 03:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
I do hope "A Layman's Reflections:" marks the first and last installment of that planned series of "articles" unless the OP dramatically improves requisite writing and debating skills.
Personally, I still can't decipher what it was trying to say.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #34
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So whats your brand of politics?
If by that you mean, how do I compromise my own ethics, I'm often faced with situations where I should confront an issue, but I back down out of fear or being at a loss for words, especially face to face. The medium we're using now is my strength, even when up against more opposition (numerically).

Or if you mean "your brand of politics," in conventional terms of "do you vote," "are you republican or democrat?" I happen to be registered non-partisan and I vote when someone strikes me as a person with pure intent, on or off the ballot (so far I've not met with a credible personality on the ballot). Also I feel strongly you should not vote if you don't know your reason for voting the way you do. It's serious. You're effectively endorsing your candidate and are as much responsible for their choices when they're in office as they are--you're vote's as weighty as their votes.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 03:48 PM   #35
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Sometimes abstaining is the more effective vote--it can speak louder than endorsing "the lesser of two evils."
 
Old 06-29-2011, 04:36 PM   #36
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Given the whisperings in human ears, why is it that some people give in immediately, some after some time and others not at all?
Giving in constantly is more --like-- "possession," or "being possessed." I would guess that the majority gives in now and then when it feels right, a little compromise here, more there, while a remnant will stick to Psalm 1, who even still don't qualify as you say, "not at all." If you've ever stretched the truth a little, you've lied. So what does that make you--and me?
 
Old 06-29-2011, 04:44 PM   #37
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See, now Anatha is doing his best to be open. He has his doubts, many in which he stands firm. That's all fair and reasonable.

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I have to see evidence of satan operating. Individually or confederately.
Considering the vast intelligence even of the brains of folks who happen to be severely mentally disabled/retarded (pardon me if the latter construction here is taken offensively, but not everyone will understand my preference for the former term, without the latter included), how could there be so many instances appearing at the surface to be stupendously stupid, like mass murder, fleeing from the law, etc., by people who clearly have much better mental faculties than folks with defacto mental disabilities? It cannot be plain stupidity--noone's that stupid. If not stupidity, you tell me, what is it?
 
Old 06-29-2011, 04:50 PM   #38
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Are there possible explanations other than stupidity and Satan?

And in your opinion (I'm wondering this), is it possible for people to do "evil", have bad intentions, harm others, etc, without being influenced by Satan?

Last edited by dugan; 06-29-2011 at 05:09 PM.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #39
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So we're talking religion now, here:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...t/atheist1-10/

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Is he able, but not willing?

Is he both able and willing?
An astounding YES!!!

Quote:
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Yes! He is both able, and willing, yet he, and those who carry their own cross, travail with him, quite often without any understanding why (except the Father himself, who solely has total understanding). For if they always had their answer, they would have no testament to their character, nor of their standing through the scourge of evil, nor standing beside their God, whom they could not prove but by their perseverance, firm position, and unconditional hope for others and their love, all established on faith. Moreover, if they understood completely why they struggled through this miry world, they could boast. As for me, I stand by faith, and the wisdom that comes with it, which has served me very well. And that's why—I--call him God.

And "whence cometh evil?" A little pride taken by and angelic being waxes grand, as does human ambition, which follows.

I can never answer this question as well as Job, 42 short chapters. If you dare, study it honestly and carefully, if you haven't the time for Genesis through Revelation.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:13 PM   #40
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It is obviously possible to challenge you and still have an open mind.
Not when predisposed to object, which can be taken from your tones, if inductively.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:14 PM   #41
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I will inject opinion and walk away slowly...

In my opinion there is no such thing as Satan! Why? I believe it is a scare tactic to put fear into people to do good deeds. The world is not black and white and one "thing" or "action" does not ever lead to a pre-meditated outcome. Judges do not treat every crime with the same punishment, society accepts things that are at times beyond me etc...

I live in the Bible belt and see first hand how people are in this area. They dress in their finest and attend church on Sunday and Wednesdays and in between the times either drink like fish or beat the wife and kids. Then they return to church and shed a few tears and tell the story on how the Devil made them sin through the week and start the whole routine all over again. And as a society we wonder why people have such a problem with accountability? Irresponsibility is engraved in our religious teachings!

Me, I am responsible for what I do and I have to live with the outcome! Some might say I believe in Karma, at any rate I am the controller of this ship and it is indeed only I that is solely responsible for my actions, the Devil never made me do it!

Then I try the Bible... Ok, So I should not sleep with my neighbors wife... Sounds good, this however is common sense and does not seem to be something any God would be interested in. Sex is a very human affair and seems to me to have very little to do with anything. Then, I should pay my taxes and obey the laws of the land, why? Why does the fact that I pay my taxes and obey the law of the land have any effect on what happens to me after death? Why does Good want me to feed greed which in itself is a sin? Why does our all mighty God care about something so petty?

In my opinion (this is just what it is here), the Bible teaches us nothing more then to be dependent! The Bible sounds very much like something written by a very smart scholar (government) in order to show us that we are not in control! We can not complain about anything we are dependent on and therefore can not complain on our own God (government) when we don't agree with the way they conduct business.

This is just my opinion!

Last edited by corbintechboy; 06-29-2011 at 05:17 PM.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:16 PM   #42
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I think he means lack of variation in the rendering/translation of earlier texts, NOT that one passage in the Bible is consistent with another.
My intent was in fact the conventional meaning--integrity between various passages.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:21 PM   #43
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
Not when predisposed to object, which can be taken from your tones, if inductively.
If you've concluded that someone is "predisposed to object", then you've committed the ad hominem fallacy and you're the closed-minded one.

If people did not consider your points, then your complaints about closed mindedness might have merit. But that is not what happened, and you're not claiming it is.

Last edited by dugan; 06-29-2011 at 05:48 PM.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
I haven't the strength to go on arguing. Besides, it's not constructive.
-------
Wait. This is a thread that you started, about religion, titled no holds barred. Am I correct?
Precisely. That was the hook, and is why I've had over 600 hits in two days--my biggest audience ever.

Yet Christ ranted, "You brood of vipers!" and for a high purpose, to share the good news, which I've not been granted opportunity to share.
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:31 PM   #45
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Yet Christ ranted, "You brood of vipers!"
Actually, that was John the Baptist, yet still it was Christ in him.
 
  


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