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Old 06-03-2006, 01:42 AM   #16
aysiu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
They think that Linux is perfect.
No, they don't. Please provide evidence to support that assertion.
Quote:
That Linux couldn't possibly be worse then anything else. It is this closemindedness that hinders Linux development.
No, it doesn't. Let's say all the forum users here really did think Linux was perfect. Do you think that would really hinder Linux development? Sorry. Linux forum members are not necessarily (and, in fact, are usually not) Linux developers.

If I posted a thousand times "Ubuntu is perfect. It does not need to be improved," Mark Shuttleworth would still be paying his developers to come up with new releases every six months with more graphical features, better hardware detection, and fewer confusing options. Every Linux distribution's new release has almost always been better than the previous release, and guess what--that usually has nothing to do with whether a forum member thinks Linux is perfect or not.

Press these Linux advocates, though. Rather than attacking Linux, just ask, "How do you think Linux could be improved?" I'll bet you get a ton of answers and none of them will be "Linux is just perfect as is. In fact, I will never upgrade my version of ___________ distribution because there's no way it could improve for the next version."

Most die-hard Linux advocates I know actually file bug reports, which does a lot more for encouraging development than whining on forums does.

There are only a handful of ways one can improve Linux, and none of them is complaining on a forum or threatening to leave and use Windows:

1. Donate money.
2. Contribute code.
3. Write documentation.
4. Help new users.
5. File bug reports.

Last edited by aysiu; 06-03-2006 at 01:47 AM.
 
Old 06-03-2006, 03:59 AM   #17
slantoflight
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The OP is right, there is no 100% distro. I just did a google search and checked distro watch and http://lwn.net/Distributions/. The name does not appear to be taken. That can be remodied, though.
 
Old 06-03-2006, 07:51 PM   #18
Maritime
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Boy, am I stupid. Someone please kill me LOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOMAOROFL!!!!114.

Last edited by Maritime; 06-04-2006 at 02:33 AM.
 
Old 06-03-2006, 09:18 PM   #19
masonm
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Quote:
Some Linux users have the absolute worst attitudes I have ever seen in my life.
Only towards pointless whiny posts.

Quote:
They think that Linux is perfect. That Linux couldn't possibly be worse then anything else.
Find me a single Linux user who has posted this.

Quote:
If Windows users had that attitude, not one user would EVER, EVER switch to Linux.
Huh? This line doesn't even begin to make sense.

Quote:
I propose a new attitude. If a new user is dissatisfied with Linux, either give them a solution to their problems, or note the problems and fix them.
Ok, so what distro are you going to be installing in order to follow your own "advise"? According to your profile you're another Windows fanboi posting (trolling) on a Linux forum so exactly where are you really coming from, Sir Troll?
 
Old 06-03-2006, 10:19 PM   #20
peter_89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
You are contradicting yourself in a way I have never before known possible. If "nobody is forcing you to use it" then why write a long rambling post in an upset tone? Seriously, I have seen this too many times before. If Windows users had that attitude, not one user would EVER, EVER switch to Linux.

Some Linux users have the absolute worst attitudes I have ever seen in my life. The amount of immaturity they will go through to protect their cause is absolutely laughable. Hilarious, even. Many see Microsoft as a company they want absolutely nothing to do with and see the slightest resistance to Linux as a threat. So how do they respond? "FINE! DON'T USE IT." But wait, there's more. Then they go on and on and on and on with "maybe our goal isn't to make things easy for new users?!" Basically, what that poster up there did summarize the "Linux is Not Windows" article, which they have readily available each time they detect oppostion. For goodness sakes, they can't even ignore it. They think that Linux is perfect. That Linux couldn't possibly be worse then anything else. It is this closemindedness that hinders Linux development.

I propose a new attitude. If a new user is dissatisfied with Linux, either give them a solution to their problems, or note the problems and fix them. Afterwards, let it go. So what if they will use Windows? Linux doesn't benifit from the number of users, as you ALL know. Theoretically, if you were the last person on earth using Linux, then you would be perfectly happy, wouldn't you?

Now, I'm not speaking to all Linux users. If you have a better attitude then peter_89, my hat goes off to you. You are the ones that will improve Linux for the future. I have used Linux and do think it has overwhelming potential. But the attitudes of some users are one the biggest blockades toward adoption.
If you actually looked at some of my older posts instead of generalizing like you are with everything else, you would have realized that I completely agree with you.
It appears that you are the unobservant flamer here.
 
Old 06-03-2006, 10:30 PM   #21
aysiu
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This Google search:
Quote:
site:linuxquestions.org "linux is perfect"
turned up only seven results...

From The Fundamental Differences Between Linux and Windows:
Quote:
MicroSoft sees perfection as a matter of percentages; marketing ploys, strong-arm tactics, and security holes aside; as long as the majority of their users find it usable, Windows is, in their view, perfect. This is a solid approach to business; worthy of a major corporation.

The Linux philosophy is that perfection is a journey specific to each individual user. If the individual user is pleased with the usability of their system, Linux is perfect. This is not an approach that appears to lend itself well to business (although some have used it with great success), but it IS a solid approach to Open Source Software: use it if it works for you, fix it if it doesn’t, and share the results with those whose needs are similar to yours.
From BIG WTF? to SUSE 10.1 developers:
Quote:
Whenever there are problems with networking between Microsoft and Linux, Linux is blamed. I don't profess that Linux is perfect but Microsoft makes no effort for compatibility with standards. The same standards that everyone else designs to. In fact Microsoft's strategy revolves around doing things differently so other venders aren't an option. The fact that Linux works at all with Microsoft is a result of the Linux community working without any cooperation from Microsoft to make it happen. I wouldn't in this case fault Linux. Instead I'd praise them for taking the effort.
From Why linux is still not up to the job for desktop and home users.:
Quote:
I'm not a computer professional, just a home desktop user. I've used Linux as my only desktop OS for over 10 years and wouldn't dream of switching to the blue screen of death.

So in answer to your question, from my perspective, Linux is perfect for desktop/home users. As a home desktop user and a Linux user, I know that not all hardware manufacturers support linux so i don't buy from them. Period. I only purchase hardware that is Linux supported. That is the only way to send the message to the hardware makers that we want Linux support. If enough consumers did likewise more hardware companies would begin supporting linux.

As for people choosing to use Windows, it's not a question of whether one is "better" than the other. It has a lot to do with what they are comfortable with. For many, if the machine was purchased with linux installed instead of Windows, they would happily use it. For others, they just don't want to invest the time and effort in learning something new.

It's not so much a question of whether Linux is "up to the job", obviously it is, it's more a question of whether the average computer user is up to the job of learning a different OS.
From First time Linux user, soon to be last time.. :
Quote:
Now, do I think Linux is perfect? No. Far from it. In fact, one of my taglines is, "Linux - it sucks less than Windows."
From Apple OSX vs. Linux:
Quote:
Another big reason I prefer Linux to mac and MS Windows is that Apple and MS both make a lot of claims that their OS's are perfect, you'll never need anything else, when they most certainly are not perfect. Now I know there are a lot of Linux zealots that would have you think Linux is perfect, but if you ask the big players in the world of Linux and Open Source Software (Linus Torvalds, Eric S. Raymond, Bruce Perens, Etc.) you'll find that they probably won't say that Linux or OSS are perfect but thats what the GPL is for, so that when something isn't working right or doesn't work how you want it to you don't have to wait for some corporation to decide that it can assign a programmer or two to fix the problem and when it's done than you the consumer get to have it. Under the GPL any problem you find YOU have the power to fix it. The GPL is there because the designers of OSS know that humans make mistakes and since programs are written by humans they are virtually guaranteed to have mistakes.
From So many to choose:
Quote:
These are the kinds of responces I wanted to hear. I think I'll just knock fedora and slackware out of the picture for now. I'll dual boot Debian and Gentoo together and put them to the test. My main goal is to say bye to windows forever. I also knew no linux is perfect just the one that was closer :-)
From need 2 remove kernel fat from boot and fine tune what's left:
Quote:
The encouragement is greatly appreciated. Linux is a hobby for me, and I don't have any native ability that anyone has been able to detect. I'm more of a bookworm. I'm really interested in learning about computers though, and Linux is perfect since its so hard that I could spend 100 years on it and still have more to learn.
In every single one of these contexts, the speaker is either explicitly saying Linux is not perfect or that Linux is perfect in the sense of being perfectly suited to a particular user's needs, not perfect in the sense of not capable of being improved.

I've provided my evidence that your assertion is without merit. Please provide your evidence that it has merit.

P.S., Here are several hundred posts by Ubuntu enthusiasts, detailing what they like least about Ubuntu. I haven't seen anyone propose that Linux cannot be improved... i.e., that it's perfect.

Edit: Retracted comment about "pure troll BS."

Last edited by aysiu; 06-04-2006 at 01:56 AM.
 
Old 06-04-2006, 01:43 AM   #22
slantoflight
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Atleast Maritime retracted his message after seeing how horribly wrong he was. Redeemable maybe?
 
Old 06-04-2006, 01:49 AM   #23
Charred
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Embarassed, definitely.
 
Old 06-04-2006, 01:56 AM   #24
aysiu
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That retraction makes me respect Maritime a bit more, actually, so I've made my own retraction.
 
Old 06-04-2006, 02:01 AM   #25
prozac
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what does 100% mean?
 
Old 06-04-2006, 02:21 AM   #26
Maritime
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peter_89, I retract all flames against you. It was mistake, and quite an idiotic one at that. And so, please, if you'd like to flame me for making those comments, please do so. In fact, I personally invite anyone to flame me. It should be fun.

Now then, I will reword my argument:

It's not worth the energy to reply to posts such as this one. Rather, they should be ignored, or, if they have any value at all, be used to improve Linux.

And, a few Linux users are closed-minded. Only a few. There are probably many Windows users, actually, who are just as close minded. And Mac OS X users. And probably users of every other operating system.

Evidence:

http://digg.com/software/Microsoft_O...ining_required (read buried comments)

http://digg.com/software/20_Things_Y..._Windows_Vista (read buried comments)

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/02/1243248 (speculative accusations of FUD)

Now, let the flaming begin. Also, please be sure to point out any inaccuracies of any posts I have made along the way. And moderators, if any banning is necessary, I'm all yours. <3

Edit: Added second digg page.

Last edited by Maritime; 06-04-2006 at 08:07 PM.
 
Old 06-04-2006, 05:57 AM   #27
slantoflight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
It's not worth the energy to reply to posts such as this one. Rather, they should be ignored, or, if they have any value at all, be used to improve Linux.

And, a few Linux users are closed-minded. Only a few. There are probably many Windows users, actually, who are just as close minded. And Mac OS X users. And probably users of every other operating system.

Evidence:

http://digg.com/software/Microsoft_O...ining_required (read buried comments)

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/02/1243248 (speculative accusations of FUD)

Now, let the flaming begin. Also, please be sure to point out any inaccuracies of any posts I have made along the way. And moderators, if any banning is necessary, I'm all yours. <3

LOL! A complete turn around. Now this is interesting. Is this some form of masochism? You seem to have a twisted sense of loyalty. You are'nt borderline are you?

I think you have about 2-3 posts before someone responds with this.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
It's not worth the energy to reply to posts such as this one.
Agreed.

Last edited by slantoflight; 06-04-2006 at 05:59 AM.
 
Old 06-06-2006, 02:59 PM   #28
robbbert
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Quote:
Ubunto won't install. (Don't like the look anyway) Bad multimedia support.
All I can say is, I've never had a Windows system (I have immediate, legal, access to any current or ancient piece of Microsoft software - as we're Microsoft partners and get all their software for free) that's as fine as my current Ubuntu Dapper installation.
Quote:
Bad multimedia support
What are you talking about?
Quote:
won't install
Ah, come on. Ubuntu installs on nearly everything.
Quote:
Don't like the look anyway
You're having a bad taste. Anyways, under Linux, you can change the look & feel by just a few mouse clicks.

After all, I tend to think I'm replying to a troll.
 
Old 06-06-2006, 06:29 PM   #29
tuxdev
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They have already de-trolled him. Please do not fan the flames.
 
Old 06-07-2006, 01:45 AM   #30
Maritime
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I didn't expect this at all. Things started to get extremely quiet after my last post. I didn't even get any takers on my flaming offer! Aren't you all ready to flame me? Isn't it time for me to get punished for my wrongdoing?

No one is even responding to my evidence. Is it credible? Is it relevent? Do you agree? aisyu, of all users, I expect at least response from you regarding the matter. Why the sudden change?

Anyway, I will respond to some of your comments while I'm writing this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred
Embarassed, definitely.
Goodness no. Not in the least. This is a message board! I personally feel sorry for anyone who feels embarrassed by posting anonymously over the internet. For one thing, they could just come back under a new name and start everything over!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slantoflight
Atleast Maritime retracted his message after seeing how horribly wrong he was.
Actually, I don't think I'm wrong at all. I maintain that I'm correct, except I toned down my argument a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slantoflight
LOL! A complete turn around.
A complete turnaround in what way? Again, I retain my argument, but this time I'm not flaming anyone. I do agree that was not the smartest (actually just a really dumb) move.

Last edited by Maritime; 06-07-2006 at 01:56 AM.
 
  


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