Hi everyone,

I'm a web developer working in a small company that offers web site design / Graphics design / web application development. The company's main direction is the web.

Some company background info: The company's boss and the old timers in the company are designers. They are well versed in Flash, Photoshop and various graphics tool. Some of them are have Print backgrounds. Numerically speaking, there are 4 designers.

My role as the web developer includes web development using the various languages on the market:

ASP/ASP.NET/PHP/ MS SQL/T-SQL/ My SQL ..etc etc.

Strictly speaking, the ratio is 4:1.

Im feeling very dishearted by the situation right now. I hope veterans here can give some sound advice.

Usually the company has many projects on hand: which is a healty sign. More projects means more revenue for the company. On the other hand, the tight deadline means the scripts' standard/quality are not really up to what I have in mind.

Some background history: As early as last year, I have this very bad habit of rushing scripts and finish it ASAP. To me, time is money. This often result in poorly tested scripts which may not be up to standard. Result: I often have to do bug fixes even after the site went live. I was de-moralised for a while and begin to ponder whether this job is up for me.

Friends around me are often tell me, "Web is dead; web development is plain boring. It's simply copy and paste; etc etc"

I being to ponder: Is web development really dead? NO! I look at their scripts, i ask myself: Where is AJAX? where is the XHTML compliant? Where is the efficiency? Where is the usage of stored procedures? Where is the usage of Server side validation? Have they even tried to use XML or web services? Are they simply treating web dev as a job?

Before I point my finger at others, I have to look at myself: WTF. I cant even do any of the things: I didn't use Ajax; I don't care about XHTML or web standards. I'm just simply a factory worker churning out web forms after web forms. So what's the difference between a student and a professional?

Yes. Completing the job is one thing; but achieving satisfaction is another.

No. Web dev is not dead. I've not even fully understand the web 2.0 idealogy.

My idealogy changed. I begin to have my own principles wheneve I'm doing a project:

1. Server validation for every input.
2. Incoporate AJAX whenever possible. Give users the seamless experience whenever possible.
3. Database design must follow to normalisation rules.
4. Begin to experiementing in making pages XHTML compliant ( I sucks at this)

Trouble began. Due to my own principles, my projects begin to drag. Remember I'm almost the only sole web dev in my company. There was this instance I argued with my boss:

His idea is to quickly incorpate the latest visual design (from PSD) with the web forms. I explained to him that even if the design are incorpated, the web forms won't be functional. I suggest I should finish up the relevant administrative modules first; ensure all the data can fit into the database; from there, i will port the forms to suit the front end; lastly I will proceed with the design integration as it will be easier to work with by then. I also suggest to him that by integrating the design and attempt to make a empty shell functional will simply give client the wrong impression. They will have this impression that the project is moving swiftly which in fact it is not.

My boss seems very disgusted with what I've said and bluntly replied: "I'm very pissed with what you've just said." I'm equally pissed. Why can't designers put themselves into my shoes? I spend hours writing few thousand lines of script. (Perhaps it's not the best though)

To them, logic is logic. Things can be easier said than done.

"Oh. It doesnt seem too difficult. User submit this form, then server process; then grab the data..admin view/edit.....". To non-developers, this concep is worth 5 seconds of their time. To a developer, it can take up to 8 hours of work:

- Form. CSS renders correctly with most browsers.
- Server side validation for all the inputs.
- Seamless picture/photo upload (Without making the page refresh); ajax style.
- Grabs the data, "clean" up all the input data.
- Save it into the database.
- Build a simple module for admin to view/edit the data.
- View data: Grab all the data, "clean" it and bring to the presentation layer.
etc etc..

It's a lot of work..to produce quality script.

To them, VISUAL is very important. They feel that even if the web application is done very well; clients may feel that it is broken if the design sucks.

I agree with that. But I feel that development and design complements each other. How can a user be satisfied when the design is elegant but it is not performing it's functions?

I'm thinking of taking up courses on Oracle/SAP/MCAD. Then perhaps I will switch to DB administration or desktop application development.

I'm sick of this crap of Designers OWN the Developers. I do not feel important.

It's unfortunate that today, people think that the way something looks is more important than what it contains and what it can do.

I'm not a pro web developer, I've just created my first website about a month ago, but here's my advice: any type of program, script, form, etc is a work of art, just like a painting, a book, etc. If you feel you don't like your work, or how the company treats you, consider trying to find another company where you feel right. Or even better, work as a freelancer...

If my boss were to not know my job better then me, I would be very pissed knowing I'm making money for him....

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Your approach to make the functional aspects solid before concerning yourself with presentation is ~almost~ correct. You will need to work with the designers to come up with a standardized method to implement their designs.

Do a demonstration project. Concentrate on a single page or functional requirement. Demonstrate how different presentation designs can be quickly implemented without breaking the underlying function.

In this forum you're more likely to find a community that will prefer function over form. But I've even heard my wife complain about some sites that don't pre-validate input, reject it, and force the user to fill out the entire form over again (not how she described it, obviously, but her actual comments are unprintable ). A perfect example of where functionality trumps appearance.

Don't argue, lead. Show them how this will improve their product and you'll get "buy in" from the rest of the group. This approach has almost always worked for me.

Time to look for new job opportunities, it sounds like there is far too much overhead in the organization and they aren't listening to their only developer. It isn't going to magically turn around and get better, if its bad now it will most likely stay bad.

hi guys,

Update: You guys are right. It's still equally bad; One of the designer is upset with me as I didnt follow their designs strictly.

But do they ever consider that every change of visual lay out requires me to realign my forms? And not to forget the number of projects I have on hand. If I'm stalled over one project, the other projects timeline will go haywire.

Seriously, I'm totally screwed.

When projects are delayed, fingers are on me.

I've re-cut the form into html several times; some of the designs requires me to re-do portions of the scripts.

I will submit my resignation soon.

Fingers are on me when project is delayed and client starts to pick issues with the website. The designer's rational is:

"If don't quickly finish up this project, clients will get upset and start picking issues with the design and request changes"

A cycle continues -> request changes -> make psd changes -> I receives the new psd layout -> redo the form.

Anyway, its a business world after all.

Wish me luck.

I have no idea how to explain to my boss. No matter how i explain, the project is still delayed. Explaination doesn't help.

I feel bad if I were to submit resignation and leave projects undone. This may delay timeline further and impact company's reputation. You may ask: why should i bother?

I guess the whole idea is to leave with a peaceful mind. I do not want to leave the company in chaos and clients starts to withdraw projects and demand refund. This would causes other people in the company to impact their livenhood.

I'm not particularly concern whether I'm out of job a not. I've a few offers thru my contacts.

After all these saga,

I realise a devloper needs to be well versed in 2 areas:

1. DATABASE DESIGN AND CONCEPTS
2. DEVELOPMENT CONCEPTS

If you have 2, but do not have 1, you are equally dead. Why? Eg: You need to understand the concept of dirty reads, transaction save points,,etc

Here's what I suggest that you do...

Schedule a meeting with your boss... who also, by the way, happens to be your colleague ... and listen.

Don't talk: listen.

Don't explain yourself: listen.

Don't defend yourself: listen.

They often say, "you don't know what you don't know." If you do not understand where your boss is coming from, and even if you are utterly convinced that he or she is absolutely daft, you need to persuade yourself to take the approach of assuming that you are in the wrong and that you simply don't realize it.

Even if you "know" perfectly well that this is not true, this bit of clever acting will open doors of communication that right now are very tightly closed. As Alfred Hitchcock said to Ingrid Bergman, "Ingrid, fake it." So you walk onto that stage and you fake it. And you throw everything you've got into that acting job, which means listening and also projecting the fact that you are listening. You .. your character, say .. makes and holds direct eye-contact. Takes notes. Listens.

Something else: you are a professional. (And I can tell fro hearing you talk that you are.) So you don't just walk off the job and leave your colleagues "in the lurch" just because you're having a momentary disagreement with them. You might chalk this up as the worst job you ever did, but you do it to the best of your ability. You want this situation to be resolved to your mutual satisfaction, so you purpose yourself to achieve that result.

I've a job offer from another company and i will be their in house developer - I can have more exposure this way; which aids my future

I've other offers from other companies which their main business is "develop website for others" -- I rejected these.

Basically I notice that all these web design houses do not really value their developers.

I've submitted by resignation to my current company last week.

This morning my boss spoke to me privately and he is willing to give me a SIGNIFICANT pay rise and ask me to name my offer.

This is the 2nd time boss ask me to name my price. The first time was many months ago when he was looking for developers.

My stance swayed. Yes. Everyone is tempted by money. But rule of thumb number 1: Never be enticed by pay rise after you have tendered.

My 2 cents: never accept a counteroffer from your current company. Once you've submitted your resignation letter, it's over, and you need to turn you attention to preparing for your new job at your new company.

The danger in accepting a counteroffer is twofold:

1. You gave your word to the new company that you'd be joining them, but now you are backing out. Congratulations, you've just burned a bridge at a company that has proven it wants to hire you.

2. Accepting a counteroffer is only a short term solution, and does nothing to resolve the underlying issues that have made you unhappy in the first place. Additionally, the next time it's time for your annual performance review, management will remember that you're that guy who was going to leave anyway, but since they already increased your salary before, there's no need to do it again. Besides, you're probably going to leave again anyway.

My guess if you decided to accept this counteroffer would be that your workload would probably increase (because hey, they just gave you a big raise so you now owe them), the underlying tension between your approach and the approach the other designers follow will remain exactly as it is now so it's inevitable that the frustration you feel now will continue into the future, and a few months down the road when you get tired of the same issues again, you won't be able to go back to the new company because they will have already hired someone else.

From what you've written, it seems clear that the current company is not a good fit for you, and if I were you I'd just thank the current company for their consideration, but that your decision is final. Again, just my two cents, good luck with it whatever you decide

Nope. I did not accept the counter offer. My stance is firm. I'm leaving. As I've always said: Web develoeprs are always under valued.

Managed to speak to my boss recently. He is trying to find a replacement for me.

I suggested to him why not hire 2 developers instead of 1?

I got a very disturbing reply - If hire 2 developers, you need to maintain 2 developers, but the amount of money from the project remains unchanged. I rather hire 2 developers in neighbouring country.

What does this imply? I've often have this feeling that he is charging very low for the projects. Is it due to compeitition? I do not know. Or is it because company's not emphasising on development. In this case, I'm glad I've made the switch.

I have no idea - Beause I do not run a business, yet.

That's great you're doing in-house development. Working on systems WITHIN a company gives you a great chance to really work on their processes and improve their efficiency... are you interested in six sigma/lean initiatives at all? I really hope you're doing operational planning and development. That work is so great! You can throw design write out the window at that point, because you're not trying to impress anyone with graphics. Plus, all the workers love you because computers are doing work they used to do and they can focus on their job (building a CRM for the sales department, for instance).

I'm in China. I've got the hookup for foreign coders if your old company needs it.

I think you shot yourself in the foot despite my best efforts to guide you in the other direction. You might not understand what I am trying to say to you for several years.

Your boss probably appears to you to be "a [clueless...] opponent."

And so, the essential mistake that you just made right now is that you never truly considered that "your boss" might actually clearly(!)understand, exactly, all of the "technical" points that you were trying to make. You continued to try to press your own particular point-of-view and never realized that, in the grander scheme of things, both you and your boss were simply striving toward a common goal...

... to satisfy your mutual customer, and to make a profit doing it.

You butted heads ... you didn't see eye-to-eye ... you gave your notice ... you're moving on to "greener pastures" ... and a year from now the same damn thing will happen again.

And you may never stop and ask, "why?" You may never imagine that stage-plays were written long-ago about your "Death of a Salesman," Willy Loman...

Your 'boss' is "a graphic designer" for a reason: because that is what his (her...) customer cares the very most about: not "how it works" but "how it looks." The goal of actually making the site work is ... was ... your job.

Let's draw the analogy between a publisher and a printer. The publisher's job is to satisfy the client. To do that, the publisher makes promises to the client... sings and dances a positive fandango! And why? Because he or she implicitly relies upon you, the craftsman ... the printer ... to make all of those promises come true.

And you do that. "The site works." Nobody knows, other than you, why it does that. And, nobody cares. Not in the slightest. You know this... and you understand. Like any good magician, you know they'll never know how the tricks work. You also know that they'll never want to. You polish your printing-press and those plates until they are spotless, as they should be. You are a tradesman, and you understand your trade very well.

At the end of the day, it's not your point of view that will prevail. It's not even your boss's. Nor his/her customer (the advertiser or whatever)... It's "the shlob who happens to click on that link." The schleppo who picks up that magazine or that newspaper, only to dump it into the trash an hour later. Him...

You are "the printer." You make web-sites appear and you make it look real easy. You got your concerns and you deal with 'em. Make 'em look easy. All this so that mister-schlob mister-schleppo can dump your work into a trashcan along with whatever remains of his cappuciono. And you are happy so to do...

Welcome to the weird-and-wonderful world of business ...

why the need to paint such a world ... ^_^

but StevenO , things are not that bad as what he said as i always tell my family to accept any newspaper , magazine and pamphlets whenever these were handed out to them freely or not ... they will dump them all into trashcans but as least people can finished their job and go home earlier ...

you see , all things are inter-connected significantly ...



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how's the new job?