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Old 12-10-2010, 02:51 AM   #31
smeezekitty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml8 View Post
What would be surprising would be if none of the cables contained any information that needed to be exposed.

But what seems clear at this point is that the vast, vast majority of them contain information that should not be exposed.

Unfavorable cost/benefit ratio. Shows evidence of no vetting.
ALL information should be exposed.
ALL information should be free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 12-10-2010, 06:09 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml8 View Post
Further, just like in your family where you will be polite to Crazy Aunt Mabel to her face and at family gatherings when in fact you can't stand her, in the global "family gathering", the various national members of their "family" have their opinions which they don't express in order to keep the peace. Well, now the US opinions have been "outed" as have a lot of other opinions. And, just like Crazy Aunt Mabel will start nattering, become all angry, and kick off a huge family fight if you express your opinion, this kind of exposure could easily set off a similar huge family fight around this globe.
You don't carry the analogy far enough. Why is crazy Aunt Mabel such a nasty old cow? What secret resentments is she hiding? Maybe you unwittingly said something offensive to her ten years ago and she's festered on it ever since. Now you are doing the same, hating her miserable guts but saying nothing, just adding to the tension.

You should air your beef with Mabel; and she should do the same with you. Have the row if it needs to be had, then when the dust has settled maybe you'll understand each other better. And next time maybe you'll be a bit more honest in the first place and will avoid the tension altogether.


I realise the row in the analogy would be a war in reality, and obviously nobody wants that, but the point remains valid. We will never learn from the wars of the past if governments insist on keeping secrets from each other. Just read some of the stuff about Saudi/Jordan/etc and Iran - makes me furious to read what the sneaky bar stewards are doing, and that this stuff is kept secret!

Last edited by spoovy; 12-10-2010 at 06:12 AM.
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:06 AM   #33
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Anonymous Wikileaks supporters mull change in tactics

I thought it was getting interesting before, but it just gets better.

Quote:
Taken from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11968605

Web attacks carried out in support of Wikileaks are being wound down as activists consider changing tactics.

Attacks against Amazon were called off late on 9 December and re-directed towards net payments firm Paypal.

Analysis suggests the earlier attacks were made more effective by the involvement of hi-tech criminals.

At the same time one wing of the activist group suggested ditching the attacks and doing more to publicise what is in the leaked cables.

Site saving

The attacks have been carried out using a tool, called LOIC, that allows people to bombard a site of their choosing with data or let the target be chosen by those running the Anonymous campaign.

The tool launches what is known as a distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack which tries to knock a website offline by bombarding it with so much data that it cannot respond.

The LOIC tool has been downloaded more than 46,000 times but, said Anonymous activists in a tweet, this did not translate into enough people using it to knock the retail giant off the web.

Instead, the attack was re-directed towards Paypal and its computer systems which, according to a status page, has intermittently suffered "performance issues" ever since.

There have also been calls for attacks on official Dutch websites following the arrest of a 16-year-old boy suspected of involvement in the online campaign.

But early on 10 December Moneybookers was chosen as the next target and its site was occasionally unreachable from about 1100 GMT.

The chances of success could be boosted by a new version of LOIC written in web programming language Javascript that allows anyone with a browser, including on a mobile phone, to launch attacks.

However, defences against the attacks were being drawn up as security firms scrutinise the code behind LOIC to work out how attacks happen. Some suggest that well-written firewall rules would be able to filter out most of the harmful traffic.

Criminal chain

Information is also starting to emerge about the other resources that supporters of Anonymous have been able to bring to bear. Research by security firm Panda suggests that some of the earlier attacks on payment firms were aided by hi-tech criminals.

Luis Corrons, technical director of Panda Labs, said during its investigation of Anonymous' attacks its analysts got talking to some of the activists via Internet Relay Chat (IRC).

One of those activists said he had a botnet of 30,000 machines under his control that he was planning to use on behalf of Wikileaks.

"The guy said he had this botnet which was nothing special and was not specifically designed to do these attacks but could be used to do them," said Mr Corrons.

A botnet is a network of hijacked home computers that have been compromised by their owners visiting a booby-trapped webpage that installs code to hand over control to a hi-tech criminal.

Mr Corrons said a botnet with 30,000 machines in it was "about average size". Most of the spam sent around the net is funnelled through machines that are in botnets.

It was becoming clear, he said, that some attacks were aided by the 30,000 machines under the cyber criminals control.

"We know for sure the botnet was used in at least one attack on Paypal," he said.

Panda itself has come under attack with its blog knocked offline for hours by an attack very similar to those Anonymous has been carrying out. Mr Corrons said that, so far, it did not why it was being attacked or who was attacking it.

Fresh leaks

There are also suggestions that the Anonymous group might be about to drop the web attacks in favour of another tactic.

A message posted on the 4chan image board, out of which Anonymous has grown, suggests dropping LOIC in favour of publicising information in the diplomatic cables that Wikileaks is releasing.

Searching for the less-well publicised cables and spreading the information they contain around the web could be more effective than simply knocking out sites deemed to be enemies of Wikileaks, it said.

The message also suggests using misleading tags on posts and YouTube videos to trick people into reading or viewing the information.

"They don't fear the LOIC, they fear exposure," read the message.

It is not yet clear if the call to change tactics has been taken up by the Anonymous group at large.

In related news, Wikileaks looks set to have a rival as former staffers of the whistle-blowing website prepare to launch. Set up by Daniel Domscheit-Berg, Open Leaks is expected to launch in mid_December and will host and post information leaked to it.
Actual image with message from 4chan (downloaded, NOT LINKED DIRECTLY TO 4chan).

-edit

This can potential quicken the pace, and you never know could expose something that is of more relevance.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 03-22-2011 at 03:04 PM.
 
Old 12-10-2010, 11:53 AM   #34
jiml8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoovy View Post
You don't carry the analogy far enough. Why is crazy Aunt Mabel such a nasty old cow? What secret resentments is she hiding? Maybe you unwittingly said something offensive to her ten years ago and she's festered on it ever since. Now you are doing the same, hating her miserable guts but saying nothing, just adding to the tension.

You should air your beef with Mabel; and she should do the same with you. Have the row if it needs to be had, then when the dust has settled maybe you'll understand each other better. And next time maybe you'll be a bit more honest in the first place and will avoid the tension altogether.


I realise the row in the analogy would be a war in reality, and obviously nobody wants that, but the point remains valid. We will never learn from the wars of the past if governments insist on keeping secrets from each other. Just read some of the stuff about Saudi/Jordan/etc and Iran - makes me furious to read what the sneaky bar stewards are doing, and that this stuff is kept secret!
Good luck with living your life that way.
 
Old 12-10-2010, 11:53 AM   #35
jiml8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeezekitty View Post
ALL information should be exposed.
ALL information should be free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make sure you tell your girlfriend that you think she has a fat butt, the next time she asks. ALL information should be free!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 12-10-2010, 05:44 PM   #36
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Honesty does not equate to transparency.

That's an Evangelist injection, to scare the kids and adults, to be straight.

And to fear the outcomes.

You know, the ole "Fear the wrath of *od"

Blind Faith
 
Old 12-11-2010, 08:26 AM   #37
spoovy
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Must be horrible to be such a paranoid cynic, to have so little faith in people.


And I don't see where gods and religions comes into this, except that religious loonies always seem to be the most paranoid and misanthropic, and the most keen on keeping secrets.
 
Old 12-11-2010, 08:27 AM   #38
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Deleted

Last edited by spoovy; 12-11-2010 at 12:20 PM. Reason: double post
 
Old 12-11-2010, 09:59 AM   #39
Jeebizz
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The Internet Cannot Be Stopped: WikiLeaks Defectors About To Launch OpenLeaks

"Several key members involved with online whistleblower WikiLeaks are said to be deserting beleaguered founder Julian Assange to form their own rival site, Openleaks, reportedly expected to launch Monday."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_794939.html


www.openleaks.org
 
Old 12-11-2010, 01:49 PM   #40
Jeebizz
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To supplement post #33, there is now a website for operation leakspin: www.operationleakspin.org/
 
Old 12-14-2010, 07:57 AM   #41
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Maybe I am misinterpreting this cable, taking it out of context? But what is this about the US working with some guy in Afghanistan, and the guy in question is “purchasing a service from a child.”? Hrmmmm
I said "much" not "all". As I noted I do see reason to post things that ARE morally/ethically reprehensible. I went to some pains to describe the kind of post I think is simply there to embarrass people. In fact if the leaks only included the kind of thing that is morally/ethically reprehensible then nearly everyone would think he had done a good thing. Of course I haven't read the "cable" you mention but note that the word "service" is fairly generic. From your post it is clear you think it meant something tawdry but for all we know from what you wrote the "service" might have been "watch my car and let me know if someone tries to steal the hubcaps".
 
Old 12-15-2010, 08:49 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeezekitty View Post
ALL information should be exposed.
ALL information should be free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, let's start with YOUR credit card information.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 09:44 AM   #43
Jeebizz
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The combination to my luggage is: 12345
 
Old 12-21-2010, 03:31 AM   #44
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I think Assange loves the publicity (maybe not the trumped up rape charges mind..) and has deliberately put these salacious articles online for that reason. Which goes against the whole idea of Wikileaks as I understood it, which was for it to be a kind of fact-checking service for people to use to verify their regular mainstream media stories. To enable people to keep their journalists honest and to encourage good journalism.

Now it's become something else though, breaking stories itself and yes a lot of the stuff is irrelevant and potentially damaging. A lot of stuff is still potentially important though - i'm British and it's very interesting to know that our prince Andrew is considered an arrogant and boorish idiot by foreign diplomats. I could've guessed this anyway, but now we have some evidence! It will hopefully speed the demise of the royal gravy train.
 
Old 12-21-2010, 11:36 AM   #45
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoovy View Post
A lot of stuff is still potentially important though - i'm British and it's very interesting to know that our prince Andrew is considered an arrogant and boorish idiot by foreign diplomats. I could've guessed this anyway, but now we have some evidence! It will hopefully speed the demise of the royal gravy train.
I'll just leave this here then...

Last edited by Jeebizz; 03-22-2011 at 03:04 PM.
 
  


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