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Old 02-19-2012, 10:42 AM   #46
looop
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@kuser What about in the case where it is used as pain medc?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 01:37 PM   #47
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It is using the wrong tool for the job. It works, but it's the wrong tool.
It can be compared to fighting cancer by using chemotherapy.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 02:10 PM   #48
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how does one conclude what is or isn't the 'right tool for the job's?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #49
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It is any tool, that, when used, damages whatever it is being used on, at the same as fixing it. Just like chemotherapy damages healthy tissues and cells at the same as killing the harmful ones.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:24 PM   #50
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so what is the right tool in this case then?
I ask because I think you may be simplifying a matter.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 05:49 PM   #51
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There is no such tool (yet). The perfect painkiller hasn't been invented/discovered yet. I think it's a choice of what's worse: the pain, or the side effects of the painkiller?

So what's harder on a human being: the side effects of drugs/substances, or trying to adjust one's life/fighting with problems?

Last edited by kuser:); 02-19-2012 at 05:55 PM.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:04 PM   #52
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so a better example than this would be..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuser:) View Post
it can be compared to fighting cancer by using chemotherapy.
Code:
it can be compares to fighting a headache by using panadol
which makes the better painkiller with less side effects (without actually solving the issue)?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 06:09 PM   #53
kuser:)
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Yes, I think so. Panadol deals with consequences instead of the source of the headache, and it has side effects.

Most of the time, people don't need chemical substances, they need to meet the right person as in this article:
http://linuxaria.com/article/happy-b...ymepis?lang=en
And I think this is one of the ongoing goals in life, to keep looking for the right people.

If I was to point a tool that is almost perfect, I'd point at knowledge.
Its only disadvantages are: we need to feed out body to keep the brain alive, and we need time to acquire it.

A very wise song, about (among other things) how we need the right person in hard times:
Novembers Doom "Autumn Reflection".

Last edited by kuser:); 02-19-2012 at 07:48 PM.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 06:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuser:) View Post
It is using the wrong tool for the job. It works, but it's the wrong tool.
It can be compared to fighting cancer by using chemotherapy.
Hardly. You dont know much about cannbis, do you?

Aside from possible mental effects, the only real issue with cannbis is from smoke. ALL painkillers that work on serious pain have possible mental effects (see loops 'agression on mophine' problem for one).

If you eat it, there is no short-term physical damage at all. Long term phsical damage is possible, but very unlikely, and the damage is only slight anyway. IMO paracetamol is more dangerous than cannabis. I know of 2 people who tried to OD on paracetamol (and one almost did it). The LD50 on cannabis is insanely high, its actually difficult to kill things with cannabis, even in lab tests. Real world, I'm only aware of one death that can be attributed to cannabis....and that was a person who developed an alergy to cannabis but kept on smoking.

Cannabinoids are actually antioxidants and has neuroprotective effects. Its actuallty medicine in its own right-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez

It is an effective tool for pain, and some other physical problems. In particular nausea, vomiting, increased hunger (very good for people who are getting chemotherapy, rahter ironic considering your pervious statement) and some eye complaints.

If you think that everyone can deal with all pain by 'meeting the right person' or mental tricks, I think you're badly mistaken. Everyone reacts to pain differently, maybe you can deal with serious pain that way but the vast majority cannot.

Sure, its not perfect, but no drug, or mental technique is. I dont think that cannabis should be used by everyone who suffers from pain, there are some segments of society that are better off with other pain medication. Some segements of society would be better of never having anything to do with cannabis, but the same is true of other pain medication or recreational drug. But given the right person and/or circumstance its much better than most, if not all the other pain medication.
 
Old 02-21-2012, 06:26 PM   #55
Wayne Sallee
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For those that take marijuana for medical purposes, why not eat it instead of smoking it?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com
 
Old 02-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #56
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Actually, I have a good friend of a great many years who does use medical marijuana for legitimate medicinal purposes. She was born during the Great Depression and, basically because her mother could not get enough to eat, she has bone defects in her feet and legs which cannot be corrected surgically. She and her doctor have found that cannabis provides effective relief with minimal side effect.

However ... I have been to Cupertino, and I have seen the utter and complete farce that is masquerading as "medical" marijuana in Silicon Valley. There is absolutely nothing legitimate, absolutely nothing "medical" about it.

I say ... if you want to legalize the stuff, quit fscking around and just do it. But, don't keep pretending. You're a government, for pete's sake. You're already ruining people's lives with one accursed plant .. why not two?

But... "do not be deceived, young buck," it is a curse. Just like tobacco, it will lay your entire life to waste and ruin. You are not being (sexy | social | smart | clever | cool); you are merely being suckered. Have nothing to do with it. Mark my words. Heed them. I know whereof I speak.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-21-2012 at 07:27 PM.
 
Old 02-22-2012, 12:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Sallee View Post
For those that take marijuana for medical purposes, why not eat it instead of smoking it?
Inefficient. Even if places where cannabis is semi-legal, its still expensive.

Messy/complicated. To get the most efficient way of eating cannabis, you need to bind the canannbinoids to a fat. Butter is the most commonly used. Making 'cannabutter' is NOT a fun process, it involves cooking the cannabis with water and butter, then recoving the butter. The water stinks, the leftover cannabis is stinky as well. Worst of all, overheating the cannabis causes it to degrade from the most potent form of cannabinoid to less potent versions. That has several efects. Besides increasing the dose needed, the lower forms of canabinoid can also have a higher likelyhood of causing unwanted effects (anxiety, etc.).

Doseage and speed of effect. Whe you smoke cannabis, you get the effects within 1 second to 10 minutes. Eating it will take 30 minutes to 2 hours+.

Vapourisers are a way to get a lot of the benefits of smoking (effiency and doseage control), without as many of thje side effects. Its possible that vapourisation is just as safe as eating it.....but that is debatable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I say ... if you want to legalize the stuff, quit fscking around and just do it. But, don't keep pretending.
There is 2 reasons why they dont just legalise it.

The american public would find it much harder to swallow sudden legalisation. Theres been myths, half-truths and out and out lies that have been bandied about over the years, even from government. For the government to turn around and say 'actually, we were wrong/misled/misleading/etc. abouit cannabis, actually you can have the stuff if you want it' makes the goverenment look silly. 'Medical marijuana' is a way to semi-legalise, with out being seen as having backflipped, or backed down.

There are also the treaties that have been signed by governemnts that effectively make legalisation illegal under the treaty. See 'Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs' for a start.

*edit- thats just the 2 biggest reasons, theres a lot more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
You're a government, for pete's sake. You're already ruining people's lives with one accursed plant .. why not two?

But... "do not be deceived, young buck," it is a curse. Just like tobacco, it will lay your entire life to waste and ruin. You are not being (sexy | social | smart | clever | cool); you are merely being suckered. Have nothing to do with it. Mark my words. Heed them. I know whereof I speak.
Comon. Comparing cannabis to tobacco? Thats a laugh. Makes me wonder how much you do "I know whereof I speak".

I actually smoke tobacco. I wish I didnt a lot of the time. It is IMO one of the hardest drugs to quit in the world. I know people who quit herion after quite long addictions cold turkey, no methadone, no support group, no hospital, just quit the stuff. Can they quit tobacco? Nope.

If I go 24hrs without tobacco it is very difficult for me. I end up having a smoke by one means or another. I havent had any cannabis in over 2 weeks now. It doesnt cause me distress, the worst that happens is day or three of bad sleep (which is a major problem for me, long story).

Sure, some people are stupid with cannabis. But some people are stupid with alcohol (far more dangerous and hardful IMO), other drugs/medications, gambling, sex....hell, I could go on. Suffice it to say that is it is pleasurable, someones got a problem with it.

IMO the idiots you see who just sit around all day smoking weed are the same sort of people who would sit around all day drinking, or chewing khat, or drinking kava, etc..

The people who get a problem with cannabis (both the 'sit around all day doing nothing but' problem, and the 'OMG I need some, I'll do anything' problem) would probably have developed a problem with something else if there wasnt cannabis.

Last edited by cascade9; 02-23-2012 at 02:34 AM.
 
Old 12-28-2012, 11:06 AM   #58
jamison20000e
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Unhappy I'd probably settle in to my new home in California only to find the fed$ f_ing it up again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji
It is all about the money in my view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catkin View Post
Almost certainly. It was prohibited in the USA following pressure from the pharmaceutical, oil and forestry businesses -- backed by Hearst's newspapers demonizing it.
True and on and pri$on$... Here in the US food is a worse drug, not that the munchies would help... lol If they legalize it people wouldn't say let's make worse drugs legal they'd say; yay weed!

Seeds make seeds so they (think they) can't\won't legalize and control it.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 12-28-2012 at 11:15 AM.
 
Old 12-28-2012, 11:23 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuser:) View Post
There is no such tool (yet). The perfect painkiller hasn't been invented/discovered yet.
Weed, placebos and <strike>perception</strike> seem close enough for me?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 12-28-2012 at 11:29 AM.
 
Old 12-28-2012, 12:26 PM   #60
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As long as this thread has been rez'd, this was on slashdot a few days ago:
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12...-ways?sbsrc=md
 
  


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