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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2003, 07:18 AM   #121
arun79
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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Bangalore
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Thumbs down Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!


Dear Paul,


I'm no Linux Expert. The last time around, the person I called in for setting up Linux (The guy who sold me my PC) destroyed my Windows partition and introduced boot partition viruses in it. I'm sure it was a fault with his M$ Windows Install CD. So, when I bought my second PC, I decided that I would do the dual boot setup on my own. I first set up Win2k and after that set up Mandrake 8.2. I was terribly frightened of doing it but I did so anyway. And guess what?? I found it the simplest set up in the world. The Win2k installer wasn't so easy. Everything you need is put there and you don't need to insert extra CDs with device drivers and such, since they are all available in the Distro itself. I felt so confident that I went ahead and set up a dual boot in my dad's comp as well and our PCs are both working perfectly fine.

So let's set the record straight here!!! Linux is very easy to install and use these days and the services that are provided in the OS are excellent. I wish M$ could come up with something as easy to use and robust. Try exploring Linux fully (and I recommend Mandrake) and see how far forward the Open source world has advanced.

Bye
Arun
 
Old 04-22-2003, 07:32 AM   #122
Windows Runaway
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i think we need to correct a mistake in this tread that is slowly getting worse lets stop saying 'why isn't linux...' and 'but linux is ...' and start telling the truth ie 'why doesn't this linix Distribution do...' and 'but the Distribution xxx does...'

i'll admit i've made the same mistake i've used redhat before but never confired it, i'm not trying to confire debain and having no ends of trouble with this Distribution that my former friend said was easy for a first time installer to get working
 
Old 04-22-2003, 09:29 AM   #123
prophet621
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Quote:
i haven't played it but personaly but i though MS was the publisher not the creator

Your right, Ensamble Studios created the 'age' series, Microsoft backed it and published it, and stuck their name on it. I can't think of any games that MS did on their own. Asherons Call is Turbine, and I don't know who did Pandora's box but I doubt it was Microsoft. MS backs the game makers and both companies profit from it.
 
Old 04-22-2003, 11:29 AM   #124
Windows Runaway
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the only nice thing i can think to say about microsoft is that it's hardware peripherals arn't bad, even though they're a little over priced, speaking of which anyone fancy telling me how i get debian to recognise a microsoft USB Trackball?
 
Old 04-22-2003, 11:39 AM   #125
Windows Runaway
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Re: Re: Re: Reasoning for Switches

i don't no about you but most the poeple i know couldn't give a fig about if the company is using unfair business practices the main concerns are price, fuctionality and to a lesser extent control

which means they don't like microsoft as the products are expensive, buggy and do things you don't want them to (auto correcting with out telling you or you asking it to, sending private data to MS without your concent, that sort of thing) the fact ms kills any product that might fix the above is just the icing on the cake

Quote:
Originally posted by digiot
The hatred for MS springs in part from the fact that they use illegal practices in their "competition" and use these underhanded methods to crush superior competition. Worse, they control the industry in such a way that the computers you buy have become re-proprietarized by including broken pieces of crap like WinModems that only work properly with Microsoft products unless extremely clever hackers devote much time and effort into working around the crippled hardware... and even then it makes a HELL of a lot more effort for the user to get all the stuff working. (Yeah, I'm fighting with a WinModem now.) And they create stupid products that encourage a point-and-click mentality and bundle more products with other products to take over every facet of your computer use. And companies like AOL conspire with Microsoft to produce software-driven connections to the net and that software only works with MS and Apple (and I hate Apple just as much as Microsoft except they are far less successful at the same games and hence far less intrusive). Speaking of intrusion, Microsoft spies on every facet of your computer use, burying hidden files on your computer and making frequent unneeded contacts across the net. And they have the deeply revolting policy of requiring you to register the operating system you rent from them and can either force you to upgrade or withhold your OS from you in the event you need to reinstall. If you upgrade components of your computer their moronic OS may suddenly decide it's been 'pirated' to another computer, not realizing it's on the same one, and go running to MS demanding you re-register - meanwhile refusing to run. And on and on - MS is a purveyor of bad products made overwhelming in the marketplace by means of illegal/immoral business practices, resulting in a degradation of computer hardware and the computing experience of the user. That's part of why people hate them.

All that being said, if people want to use Windows, that's up to them. I'm currently dependent on it for my only online computer. And I think DOS is an amusing OS and not relevant to current computer issues, so I keep it around on those unconnected computers. But everything I use excepting the operating system, is a non-Microsoft product. But, like my connection issues - many people have many valid reasons for continuing to use Windows - and even if they just like it, that's up to them. What I don't understand is animosity to Windows users. I don't buy an argument that they contribute to the MS monopoly - only a few are markedly pro-Microsoft and a few doesn't amount to a monopoly. It's Microsoft capturing all the unwilling users that's a problem and no reason to be negative towards someone who's trapped.

But to say MS is just another company and why not use their products... no way.
 
Old 04-25-2003, 03:24 PM   #126
Paul Parr
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Wow there have been many good points brought in the last number of replys.

I just want to say I agree some things
Windows Runaway (Post # 81)
prophet621 (Post # 107)
poloktim (Post # 109)

I applaud your efforts. Thanks for your input. Great posts!

However "arun79", A linux guy came to set up your computer with linux, destroyed it, and somehow its windows fault? Hello? Is anyone else confused?
P.S. - Try to avoid the slamming. I sense another would be Slacker in our midst

Anyway I wanted to emphasize a good point brought up earlier about error messages...
I am using RedHat9 and as far as installing RPMs goes something is seriously wrong with the GUI process for this. Being a newbie myself, If I try to install an RPM that is not complied for Redhat, is missing dependancies, or is source then the installer runs...looks like its installing to about 85% then just exits. At first I was so confused...did it install or not? I learned that if it does install coreectly you get a message saying the install is complete, and you even get a message if you try to install an RPM that already exists, this is good....but there is absolutely no messge telling you the install did not happen because of whatever reasons...I don't consider this user friendly. I did learn that if I want to do it (what I consider) the hard way and use the CLI to install the RPM then at least if there are dependancy issue it will tell me. How could somelthing so simple be left out of the GUI interace. Where's the logic here?
I also think it would be nice if there was somekind of Automated Help agent in Linux that can assist you when you run into problems like that...like a Penguin that comes up on screen and gives you hints or explains what problem just occurred and the possible solutions available. At least there should be an error message.

Last edited by Paul Parr; 04-25-2003 at 03:32 PM.
 
Old 04-26-2003, 12:05 AM   #127
slakmagik
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Registered: Feb 2003
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Gah! No! I don't want any dancing paperclips or any damn dogs in my search box.

And, yeah, the command line's better, so do it from there. Better still, compiling from source will give you *tons* of error messages.
 
Old 04-26-2003, 02:33 AM   #128
poloktim
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I can't stand compiling from source. Really. three out of ten compiles work for me. It really pisses me off. I'm forever searching the net for alternates that are .deb packaged or for a .deb package for the software I want.

The commandline is fun, but I use aterm instead of a terminal because I like the transparency in my bg
 
Old 04-26-2003, 08:40 AM   #129
tundra
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hm for those games... i think MS acts as the publishing house?

btw, i just wanted to comment on the options in this poll... uh, by any chance, if i'm not a noob but feel it'd be great to have things simpler (if possible), where do i vote?

anyway, the command line ain't that fearful a thing...
 
Old 04-26-2003, 03:15 PM   #130
Mara
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Parr

I am using RedHat9 and as far as installing RPMs goes something is seriously wrong with the GUI process for this. Being a newbie myself, If I try to install an RPM that is not complied for Redhat, is missing dependancies, or is source then the installer runs...looks like its installing to about 85% then just exits. At first I was so confused...did it install or not? I learned that if it does install coreectly you get a message saying the install is complete, and you even get a message if you try to install an RPM that already exists, this is good....but there is absolutely no messge telling you the install did not happen because of whatever reasons...I don't consider this user friendly. I did learn that if I want to do it (what I consider) the hard way and use the CLI to install the RPM then at least if there are dependancy issue it will tell me. How could somelthing so simple be left out of the GUI interace. Where's the logic here?
Have you mailed authors of the program? It's not hard to add an error message when installation fails... I guess it will be added if you ask.
 
Old 04-26-2003, 03:27 PM   #131
Solean
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Quote:
Originally posted by neenee

but here's my personal opinion.

if someone wants to try linux for the first time, i will
first point them to a distro such as knoppix, which they
can try without making changes to their current setup.
then, if they like it, and are aware of the patience needed
to switch to a new os and learn new things, i will point
them to the distrowatch site, and have them check out
the major distributions, explaining that there are special
windows-like distros for those who want an easy switch
without much change, like xandros, lindows and lycoris,
and if they want to go a bit deeper, i will advise mandrake,
redhat and suse.

Thats what I told my best friend. Hmm.... I still need more converting....
 
Old 04-27-2003, 04:12 AM   #132
Ashandarel
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Registered: Apr 2003
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This is quite possibly the most interesting linux discussion I've ever read; that's not saying a whole lot, being not quite a week into my linux experience, but the information, and opinions expressed herein (barring a few truly asinine comments from a moderator...) were very enlightening. I also get pretty excited when I see people having a discussion on the internet without it degrading into a pointless flame-war .

I won't go so far as to elaborate my philosophy on Windows.vs.GNU/Linux, since I'm still working on that one, but I will say I have rather a rather unsavory opinion of Microsoft.

As for ease of use, I'm a nineteen year old high school drop out (Good Enough Diploma anyone?) and I installed mandrake 9 without a hitch (not counting the half hour it took to configure X for something other than generating pretty colored lines in zig-zag patterns and refresh rates conducive to monitor explosion ). After that, I was surfing the web, listening to mp3's, inside an hour downloading and installing packages (AMSN being the first, god help me), inside a day compiling wine from source because the binaries gave me headaches (and I actually got it to run a program or two), and for the last few days I've become a shadow of my former self staring at an unshaven face reflected from a terminal window. That was a long sentence

Anyway, I'm getting excited.
 
Old 04-27-2003, 06:51 PM   #133
prophet621
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Quote:
In the last few years that I have been testing the Linux Waters I have turned tail and run back to Windows, but I've always kept my eye on Linux because it had something attactive and maybe even additive to me. One thing I have noticed in that time is that Linux is Evolving at an amazing rate and its becoming much more of what I personally like. I like what I'm seeing these days, choices that weren't there before. For me I think the Linux packages like Xandros, Lycoris, and maybe even Lindows are far more suited to the novice Linux Desktop user (Except what really sucks is none of these are FREE, although low cost, which forces many newbies to opt for testing linux on the available FREE distros). For other experienced users they are not their flavor. I wish that Linux community would just stop banging each other over the head with the "One Linux" for all mentallity. Like I see before, not everyone is a seasoned professional, nor does everyone want to be.

Very well said. The first half of the [aragraph describes the same thing I went through. The last half sums up my feelings as well.

For years I have kept an eye on Linux and visit Linux forums though I haven't/don't use Linux that often. Though it has come an incredibly long way in just about every area since my first Mandrake 5 install, Linux and I still aren't ready for it to be something more than something to play with every once and a while. I still use Windows for games and a few key apps I often use that either don't have a Linux clone yet or don't have the key features I need. I don't want to go to a better OS for and use what I feel are subpar apps. To me is the software that really turns the tides. So I boot into Windows to play a game or use one of my apps and figure, 'since I'm here already, why not just stay here? No point in booting into Linux to do this just to turn back around in a half hour and need to go back into Windows.'

Also, I hate installing software in Linux. When I do find something that I think is just as good as what I use in Windows and gives me one less thing I need to go into Windows for, it's generally more of a headache than it's worth. When I install something, something else will inevidably stop working. Then I often have to go on the great hunt to figure out where Linux put it so I can use it.

Speaking of which, why is it when someone posts their opinion about possibly implementing a package format that you can double click on to install that they start to get bashed for 'trying to turn Linux into Windows'? No one is trying to turn Linux into Windows. Why is every feature of Windows bad? Why do so many feel so threatened by it? It wouldn't mean everyone had to use it. For example.. I use Debian clones. I have a choice of installing from source, .deb in the console, apt with or without synaptic and alien to convert rpms, what would be so horrible with something to double click if I chose to go that route? Being like Windows isn't necessarily bad if you want it to be. We all know one of the great things about Linux, you can set it up how you like, if you want it to act like Windows..fine, whats wrong with that? You want iot to act nothing like Windows..again, fine. It's still Linux and it's still your choice. I'm so tired of hearing people tell someone to go back to Windows if they wanty Linux to do something the same way or if they don't have the desire to learn every little detail of Linux or say something remotely negative about it.. I'll use my example..not liking app installation. Then, after their told to go back to Windows they have to endue and onslaught of insults about them, newbs in general and Windows.

Also, I'm not trying to bash Linux in any way, true, there are things about it I really don't like, same with Windows, Solaris, Mac..etc. No OS is perfect for everyone. I think too many want to believe it's perfect (or have such an irrational hatred for another) that they stop forming their own opinions. Sometimes try to convince themselves of their OSs flawlessness by trying to convince others. You are permitted to not like something about Linux. I'm sure everyone here who is married or involved with someone or even has a pet, there's something you don't really like about them but you're still with them for the rest of the package.

Wow, how did I get here from simply trying to reply to a post? Sorry about that everyone. I had no intention of going on a rant when I decided to reply. It's been a bad day and I guess I just sort of took out some frustrations here.. again, I do apologize.
 
Old 04-30-2003, 05:23 PM   #134
Womandrake
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I hope someone reads the poll results and makes linux easier Especially with the "failed dependencies" and "variables" and glib, gtk stuff!!! As you can see I'm having trouble with those hehehe MAKE IT EASIER!

NB: I actually liked the dog in the windows search box!
I also have something to comment on, at the risk of becoming a linux society outcast.. everyone started somewhere.. even the most diehard *nix users.. I think one could safely say windows was probably the starting point for most computer users, okay so with the monopoly etc etc we've all heard about it alot, ppl have come to hate what MS stands for, which I can understand, but let's all face it.. if it hadn't been for windows.. how many of us would be using linux now? So next time you critisize windows with hateful words, please remember this In fact I think that would make an interesting poll... "which OS did you use in your first contact with computers?" .

Last edited by Womandrake; 04-30-2003 at 05:30 PM.
 
Old 04-30-2003, 05:41 PM   #135
Tinkster
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Quote:
if it hadn't been for windows.. how many of us would be using linux now? So next time you critisize windows with hateful words, please remember this
Heh ... you're suggesting to be thankful towards MS
for this experience? :)

That's like saying thanks to the farmer who
fed you cow-pies after you discovered that
apple-pie is WAY better :D

Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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