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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-22-2003, 11:18 PM   #721
ricdave
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<<< I hate Yankies for that crap. >>>

Heyyyy!!! What did we ever do to you?
 
Old 11-23-2003, 04:17 AM   #722
smcoptyltd
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M$' invasion.

Enough?

 
Old 11-23-2003, 09:23 AM   #723
ricdave
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<<< <<< I hate Yankies for that crap. >>>

Heyyyy!!! What did we ever do to you?

M$' invasion.

Enough? >>> >>>

Uh huh, you and all of your compatriots were forced at gunpoint to buy MS and MS related products, right? Like you, along with the rest of the world had no other choice, nothing like Apple or Commodore or G.E.O.S. or anything like that was available when this was all shaking out in, what, the late '70s? Is that what you are saying? You and yours bear no responsibility for MS adoption, and of course your country developed some very good alternatives and are using them now like, what, exactly!? Oh, you didn't develop an alternative? Why not? Are you going to now, or are you going to keep on crying about what the big, bad, U.S. based MS has done and is doing? Take some responsibility, for crying out loud!!!
 
Old 11-23-2003, 09:52 AM   #724
smcoptyltd
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"Uh huh, you and all of your compatriots were forced at gunpoint to buy MS and MS related products, right? Like you, along with the rest of the world had no other choice, nothing like Apple or Commodore or G.E.O.S. or anything like that was available when this was all shaking out in, what, the late '70s? Is that what you are saying? You and yours bear no responsibility for MS adoption, and of course your country developed some very good alternatives and are using them now like, what, exactly!? Oh, you didn't develop an alternative? Why not? Are you going to now, or are you going to keep on crying about what the big, bad, U.S. based MS has done and is doing? Take some responsibility, for crying out loud!!!"

Unfortunately the most of the world was taken as a hostage by terrorists from M$.

That's why I'm here, trying hard to negotiate some deal against the bastards!

Linux could be a perfect weapone.

Any other 'inteligent' question!?




Last edited by smcoptyltd; 11-23-2003 at 09:54 AM.
 
Old 11-23-2003, 10:10 AM   #725
ricdave
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<<< Unfortunately the most of the world was taken as a hostage by terrorists from M$. >>>

I use Linux because for me, it is fun. I can do everything that I want to do in Linux that I can do in Windows. I have come to highly value the stability and reliability that is Linux. It has become my preferred operating system. I do nor hate MS, and have a hard time understanding people that do. MS has been instrumental in making computing truly available to the masses. What ever your petty beef may be re: MS, its contributions and place in history is assured. Why do you feel you were taken hostage? You trotted down to your local computer outlet, along with the rest of the world, and put your money down, didn't you? Because you wanted to, right?
If you are here because you have recently come to Linux and need assistance, you have come to the right place. If you are here because you enjoy the sometimes spirited discussion that this type of thread often inspires, welcome. If you are here to bash, or flame, or engage in similar behavior, may I MOST respectfully suggest that you may wish to reconsider your choice to join this forum?
 
Old 11-23-2003, 12:27 PM   #726
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by smcoptyltd
“The problem you have is that everything
here is metric, and your tools are imperial.”
Agree and that’s the huge step backwards.
I hate Yankies for that crap.
Just because they're slow they don't
deserve anyones wrath :}

They didn't invent it, they inherited the funny
values from the brits. They're just too proud of
themselves, and their "leader of the world"
mentality won't allow for dropping these
systems ...


Quote:
Don’t agree here. Any Windows on any computer may work
for years without major problem. Problems are created by:

users
Hummm ... now you're basically agreeing
that an un-educated user is the problem? :}

That's what I've been preaching all along.
Install Linux/Windows and never have anyone
interact with it, and it will be fine ;D

Quote:
Peace…


BTW. Tinkster! I started to like you! ;)

The trouble is, I don't know why!
Some say I'm entertaining ;D


Cheers,
Tink

Last edited by Tinkster; 11-23-2003 at 02:01 PM.
 
Old 11-23-2003, 12:35 PM   #727
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave


Tinkster can be blunt and ascerbic and I have had my own differences with him. But that was just plain uncalled for. (Sorry, tink, I know you don't need me to defend you, but really!!!)
Hi ricdave,

thanks for jumping to my support(?!),
I appreciate being called blunt :D
(I couldn't find ascerbic in any of
the dictionaries/encylopedias here,
what does it mean? :}) ...

And he was just kidding, there were two
smilies that even I couldn't overlook :)

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-23-2003, 01:47 PM   #728
ricdave
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<<< (I couldn't find ascerbic in any of
the dictionaries/encyclopedias here,
what does it mean? :}) >>>

Misspelled. Try acerbic. I am fairly certain that it means acid in temper, mood, or tone. And I believe that fairly describes at least part of some of your posts. Sometimes certainly called for but occasionally gratuitous. If we were on the same continent (which I suspect that we are not) I would probably enjoy sharing the occasional cup or pint or bottle or whatever.
 
Old 11-23-2003, 01:59 PM   #729
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
Misspelled. Try acerbic. I am fairly certain that it means acid in temper, mood, or tone. And I believe that fairly describes at least part of some of your posts. Sometimes certainly called for but occasionally gratuitous. If we were on the same continent (which I suspect that we are not) I would probably enjoy sharing the occasional cup or pint or bottle or whatever.
And there was me thinking I left cynicism behind
about 20 years ago :} ... guess I fall back into my
old sins occasionally. As for the pint: I'm in NZ,
New Zealand, and you're in ... ? :)

And I honestly apologize, there's no excuse for
that, merely an explanation ... I've been fighting
a "bad attitude" of n00bs in this thread for over
half a year, that may explain why I am bitter at times ;)



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-23-2003, 09:02 PM   #730
ricdave
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<<< I've been fighting
a "bad attitude" of n00bs in this thread for over
half a year, that may explain why I am bitter at times
>>>

I hear you. Nothing really wrong with a little well placed invective when the occasion calls for it. This is not the longest thread I am involved in. It is amazing how these threads seem to wander. I think the original post had to do with making Linux easier (someone should maybe write a few scripts to automate installs I think) for the mythical average user. What would make it better, etc., and this thread has been all over the place. Linux is pretty much OK where it is, all things considered, and will progress as more users come on-board and provide an attractive market for porting popular software to Linux. More apps coming out all the time.
 
Old 11-23-2003, 09:21 PM   #731
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
for the mythical average user.
Heh ... and the mythical simplicity. I believe
that the machine's we're using are complex,
and error prone. There is a rule in development
that says that a project of so and so many
lines of code CAN'T be error-free. However,
the approach towards this complexity is a bit
paradoxically to make it even more complex
(and error-prone) by wrapping more code
around it.

The funny thing is that the simplicity people
long for causes more complexity.

I still like the comparison with cars. You don't
just hop in and push a button, you have to know
quite a few controls, need to know that you have
to put fuel in the tank, have the oil changed, the
brake liquid checked, plus you have to learn the
road code.

I haven't seen anyone yelling at a car dealer
that the gear-shift and clutch are a pain in the
A** .... people who don't like manuals buy automatics,
at the expense of higher fuel consumption and
less fun ;)


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-23-2003, 11:33 PM   #732
ricdave
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<<< Heh ... and the mythical simplicity. I believe
that the machine's we're using are complex,
and error prone. >>>

Maybe so, but having fought Linux since 1999, I physically cringe when I have to touch a Winbox. Not because Linux has the 'killer app', it doesn't. Not because linux is easy or friendly, it isn't. Not because all the software I need runs native on Linux, it doesn't. But because I trust Linux. Linux, the OS, has never let me down, never crashed, never lost my data. Simple things like starting shutdown, turning monitor off and walking away, because I know that it will proceed to complete shutdown. Every single time. Without fail. Apps are becoming more plentiful, chmod, tar, ./, make, make install, gunzip, -xzvf, rpm have become well worn and familiar tools. I haven't purchased a firewall or anti-virus in years. Haven't lost anything due to viral infection or worms, either.While I sit here, I am listening to my tunes, downloading 3 gigs in 7 separate downloads, and crunching serious numbers on statistical analysis and playing spades on yahoo games. Could bring MS to its knees. Analytical program alone typically runs 4 or 5 days. Not a problem for Linux.
I do wish more distros used the same care Elx Linux does. Theirs works out of the box. Everything, including java in web browser. Now if we could just get a standardized install script that would run point and click....
 
Old 11-23-2003, 11:36 PM   #733
JusticeOne
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Well i have no really knowledge of linux and need days reading HowTo's and man pages to install a scanner or to get my my Sidewinder ForceFeedback Wheel running. But Linux should stay as it is! I know i can get my Wheel working somehow under Linux (not now, but maybe later). But when there is hardware that Windows doesn't know, you can give up. (e.g why does my scanner run on a 386DX40 with win311 but not on an Athlon1800+ with win2k?) Because Windows sucks and OpenSource rocks!
 
Old 11-24-2003, 01:32 AM   #734
xode
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Quote:
From Tinkster

There is a rule in development
that says that a project of so and so many
lines of code CAN'T be error-free.
Actually, the rule is: given any arbitrary program, there is no rule to guarantee that any given byte in that program will not end up at some point being executed as an opcode.

By the way, Tinkster, please explain the following further:

Quote:
...but I do appreciate that you don't
think like this. Tell me where you live and I'll
invite myself over sometime
 
Old 11-24-2003, 07:25 AM   #735
perry
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the great falicy of errors in code

Quote:
Originally posted by Tinkster
There is a rule in development
that says that a project of so and so many
lines of code CAN'T be error-free.
Tink
i've been developing software in a variety of languages for years. the concept that software can somehow be "error-free" is like saying that software can somehow be perfect. it's like saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. yet it is.

an interesting point of view but means little to the bottom line as far as a business man is concerned. a program simple does what a program is simply told to do. over and over and over again, thats all a program does. errors in code. that's ridiculas, that pre-supposes that a computer or a computer program can be consious of doing "wrong", it cannot.

it's simply a box and a few lines of code that are really reflections of your thought processes.

now if you want to wager whether or not "your" thoughts are in error. or if you made a mistake or had a misunderstanding while transcribing your thoughts to the computer, that could be a subject for debate. or even better, as a vertern of the latest in use cases and other requirements gathering techniques, not understanding the customer is a source of error but outside the context of the computer.

further to say that the computer is capable of making an error, is like saying the sun and the stars are capable of being out of position and if so are therefore responsible for it. the sun, moon and the starts are going to be whatever what created them intended them to be and do whatever they were intended to do and when they were intended to do it.

so there is no need to argue whether or not a computer program is "correct".

hope this makes a bit of sense

cheers

- perry

Last edited by perry; 11-24-2003 at 07:29 AM.
 
  


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