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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-02-2003, 12:21 PM   #151
a_m_flash
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Smile


Being the newbie that I still am, I am trying to get weaned off of windows because of the "challenge" factor. There isn't any.
Linux may be a bit frustrating but with what Micro"easy" has done, is that it has portrayed a "no brain" factor to the consumers.
Linux, I believe is here because it gives a push to say "hey you have a brain, use it."
Albeit, Linux has hardware issues but, I think we all know why.

Keep Linux they it is. I will figure it out soon.
 
Old 05-03-2003, 01:05 PM   #152
chilibowl
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Wink Linix hard.YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Hey users of LINUX and Windows , Paul Parr seems to have the best Analysis of the problems of UX VS Windoz .

Simple things like setting up e-mailaccounts in LINUX (even ina Redhat /Mandrake Distro [granted mine is OLD RedHat 6.1] are Tortous compared to seetting up in Win98. The Install of LINUX ,is not at all too terribly Difficult -Only 3 distros I have tried {RHAT 6.0 Mandrake 6.1 ,SuSe 6.3} Personally ,never have installed WINDOWS 98 yet ,sounds intimidating.

But for everday use for simple things that we like to do like a REALPLAYER or WINAMP .LINUX just is apile of shit that drives you crazy , WHY NOT have it simple in this aspect ?????? Linux is going to be a "CULT" O/S if it has not changed its GUI -Human interaction since the Distros Ihave are not any different.


Not to be a total LINUX flame out , things like a CONTROL panel like WIN98 where you can ACCESS your DRIVES would be a GODSEND to LINUX , instead of ripping your eye brows out figuring how you access the drives through some command line in some folder that one can barely understand, only to get NOWHERE with it ,for countless times .


the Good Part about LINUX , It is affordable , Has neat Graphics and ALL the ScReEn SaVeRs you could ever want.
Has a cool Kppp network status graph chart about the Packets being sent to/fro . And Lets not forget about TUX.

When LINUX gets as comfortable as WIN 98 , then I,ll be using it more ,for now it is installed on my "experiment" computer. Bye , Chilibowl
 
Old 05-03-2003, 04:31 PM   #153
Tinkster
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Re: Linix hard.YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote:
Originally posted by chilibowl
;) Hey users of LINUX and Windows , Paul Parr seems to have the best Analysis of the problems of UX VS Windoz .

Simple things like setting up e-mailaccounts in LINUX (even ina Redhat /Mandrake Distro [granted mine is OLD RedHat 6.1] are Tortous compared to seetting up in Win98. The Install of LINUX ,is not at all too terribly Difficult -Only 3 distros I have tried {RHAT 6.0 Mandrake 6.1 ,SuSe 6.3} Personally ,never have installed WINDOWS 98 yet ,sounds intimidating.

But for everday use for simple things that we like to do like a REALPLAYER or WINAMP .LINUX just is apile of shit that drives you crazy , WHY NOT have it simple in this aspect ?????? Linux is going to be a "CULT" O/S if it has not changed its GUI -Human interaction since the Distros Ihave are not any different.


Not to be a total LINUX flame out , things like a CONTROL panel like WIN98 where you can ACCESS your DRIVES would be a GODSEND to LINUX , instead of ripping your eye brows out figuring how you access the drives through some command line in some folder that one can barely understand, only to get NOWHERE with it ,for countless times .


the Good Part about LINUX , It is affordable , Has neat Graphics and ALL the ScReEn SaVeRs you could ever want.
Has a cool Kppp network status graph chart about the Packets being sent to/fro . And Lets not forget about TUX.

When LINUX gets as comfortable as WIN 98 , then I,ll be using it more ,for now it is installed on my "experiment" computer. Bye , Chilibowl
What an incoherent load of crap :)

1.) In Windows 98 you can't access drives from
the control panel.

2.) If you used any Linux distro with Kde 2 or newer
you'd be surprised how easy it is to set-up. Certainly
no harder than OutPuke.

3.) Realplayer has been ported to Linux, and XMMS
is a more than acceptable substitute for WinAMP.

4.) Paul Parr doesn't know didly squat about Linux,
so any comparison will be Windows-biased in the
first place.

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 05-03-2003, 05:22 PM   #154
prophet621
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Quote:
1.) In Windows 98 you can't access drives from
True, But I have to admit I wouldn't mind if Linux had something like Windows control panel...2K pro version, with admin tools. I know some distros have something simular but most are pretty basic.

The default KDE apps are very easy to set up, most other apps are as well...if you can find where they were installed at.

I have to agree that XMMS is more than suitable as a replacement for winamp, the only thing is the lack of skins that winamp has.

As for Realplayer.. what an abomination that thing is. That ranks right there with Windows ME on the sh*t-o-meter. Is it as intrusive for Linux as it is for Windows? In Windows it tries to take over everything, it's worse than media player, and for years they were getting hassled about the player sending personal and computer info back to Real Networks.

Personally I still use Windows for all media stuff. I get better sound and video quality. To me this is one of the areas that Linux still needs some improvements, better hardware support would also help this out.

oh and as far as installation, I've never thought of any version of Windows or Linux I have done yet as difficult. I've installed everything from 95 through 2003 server rc2 , and at least a dozen different Linux distros (first one was Mandrake 5 or 6). Some are easier than others but none are overly difficult, though I haven't tried Gentoo or Slack. Debain was probably the hardest and even that was rather straight foreward. Simple rule of thumb here, if your a little unsure, read what's on the screen, they all basically walk you through it. Even installed Lindows on my mother-in-laws computer, a monkey could install that.

Last edited by prophet621; 05-03-2003 at 05:24 PM.
 
Old 05-03-2003, 10:08 PM   #155
322bnh
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Part of the problem with the experts here is that they may know how to fix a problem from the command line but are as stupid as the rest of us in using GUI.
As an example my lated post was never answered: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=57145
On another post I finally fixed it myself (GUI) and all the experts said was ho hum and never asked how it was done: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=44580
Purging print documents is simple and intuitive in any Windows OS but I have yet to figure it out in Mandrake.
Right now Mandrake is just a novelty and is just about as useful as win 3.1 I have on an old 386: hardware either does not work or is hobbled with fewer features (my Canon camera and scanner is not supported, my hp printer lacks features including printing in draft mode, the Lucent winmodem never has worked, and only one of the cd rom drives has full function); software is a nightmare to install and then "where is it" or is hobbled by fewer features than windows counterparts (Opera has a garbled display, Real Player looks like a 3 year old version that I have on an old win95 computer).
More to follow....
 
Old 05-04-2003, 03:38 PM   #156
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by 322bnh
Part of the problem with the experts here is that they may know how to fix a problem from the command line but are as stupid as the rest of us in using GUI.
As an example my lated post was never answered: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=57145
On another post I finally fixed it myself (GUI) and all the experts said was ho hum and never asked how it was done: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=44580
Purging print documents is simple and intuitive in any Windows OS but I have yet to figure it out in Mandrake.
The problem here is that you chose to ignore
the perfectly valid solutions for print-job purging,
chose to remain ignorant towards Linux as an OS
insisting there should be a way of doing something
YOUR way ... :)

Also, claiming that "Purging print documents is
simple and intuitive in any Windows OS" I doubt
that you ever tried to do this on Win 3.1 with a
Netware Printer ... :P

I do not doubt that your personal cultural experience
with computers (using bushdrums sounds really great!)
is highly valuable, but other people(s) have different
ways of doing things (we, for instance, use writing
and e-Mail, which, admittedly, isn't quite as nice to
listen to, but more generic and persistent) ...

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 05-04-2003, 11:06 PM   #157
322bnh
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And cheers to you Tink.
The last paragraph of your post was probably meant as an insult, but since I didn't understand it no offence is taken.
Now back to the topic. Alot of fine people took a lot of time for little or no pay to develope the KDE GUI. It isn't perfect but I think they would like for it to be used for the useful tool it is, not disregarded as fluff and work everthing from the command line. The command line is faster if you know all of the commands but since I don't have them memorized I would rather poke around with a mouse to fix it if needed.
More to follow...
 
Old 05-04-2003, 11:35 PM   #158
Paul Parr
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Re: Re: Linix hard.YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote:
Originally posted by Tinkster
What an incoherent load of crap

1.) In Windows 98 you can't access drives from
the control panel.

2.) If you used any Linux distro with Kde 2 or newer
you'd be surprised how easy it is to set-up. Certainly
no harder than OutPuke.

3.) Realplayer has been ported to Linux, and XMMS
is a more than acceptable substitute for WinAMP.

4.) Paul Parr doesn't know didly squat about Linux,
so any comparison will be Windows-biased in the
first place.

Cheers,
Tink

Firstly I didn't ask to be placed in the middle of your petty squabbles.
Secondly, RealPlayer does suck, and so does Windows98.
Thirdly, I certainly wouldn't be shouting about how crappy Linux is if your using such old versions. The various distros have improved tremendously.
I have successfully, and relatively easily set up my Internet, network printing, Network File sharing, email, MP3 plugin, Video card, sound card, Remote desktop/VNC, FTP, Telnet, Instant messanger, and a whack of other stuff. I still have to figure out rpm install problems, installing a DVD player, installing and playing opengl games, and a few other things when I have the time. The more I use Linux the better I think it is, and that it does have great potential to satisfy all levels of users.

Lastly, Tinkster...Just because your lips seems to be flapping a milion miles a minute doesn't mean anything of value is coming out of them. It seems the more you say the less any of us wants to hear you. You are simply an arrogant person, with Bias opinions, who seems to just want to get the last word in by flaming everyone, and hurling insults, especially the newbies. Your a disgrace to the Linux community and I think I speak for most when I say....SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE! Go back to the Geeks R us cave that you crawled out of and let the rest of us get along peacefully and respectfully. Do us all a favor and DON'T responsed to this...if your smart. (at least if you think you are.)

What a waste of my time you are.
 
Old 05-04-2003, 11:59 PM   #159
Paul Parr
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After getting side tracked by the obvious..back to the Poll.

Interesting there seems to be a split down the middle. There is power in numbers from both sides of the extremes.

It would seem that many vetrans and some newbies seems to like there Linux distros just the way they are, no need for simplifcation, they don't wish to give up control or power.

on the other hand, it seems many newbies and even some Vetrans would like to see at least a better automated guidance component to Linux, in regards to error handling, and configuration, and yes even installation as far as rpms/compiling goes.

I sure hope the Linux Development community is listening. No distro can satisfy everyone, but maybe we can find a comfortable middle ground in the process.
 
Old 05-05-2003, 09:10 AM   #160
Facekhan
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Actually what would really make my day being a linux newbie is if application developers would just commit to one standard for compressing files. I don't care if its tar.gz, zip, or any of the others but the biggest pain in my butt is every time I download an application I have to run to these boards to find out how to uncompress it.
 
Old 05-05-2003, 10:10 AM   #161
a_m_flash
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Talking Paul Parr

Apparently Mr Parr must be an angry windoze user. You need more fiber in your diet sir?
 
Old 05-05-2003, 01:25 PM   #162
ricdave
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I think that this is still on topic. I would like to see linux as easy to install as MS (IMHO it is now, at least w/MDK, SuSE, etc.), and as easy to use with all of the business apps which are currently available fo MS systems. I use Linux where it works, but there are many business apps (propriety, to be sure) which are simply not available in linux, and won't be untill the user base is large enough to warrant porting said apps to linux. Point and click download and install, with all of the geek stuff handled in the background by wizards, etc., are a near necessity. It may be true that the linux community has no interest in popularizing linux, but we(in the business community)have a very different view. You proponents of, creators of, contributors to the linux community have done a wonderful job. But the tone of many of the posts seems to indicate that there is a reluctance to make it usable by those who would most benefit from the power, stability, and versatility of linux. It looks like you are saying, "look at this wonderful system we have put together, but you cannot use it unless you use it on our terms." Period.
 
Old 05-05-2003, 04:04 PM   #163
Tinkster
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Re: Re: Re: Linix hard.YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Parr
Firstly I didn't ask to be placed in the middle of your petty squabbles.
Complain to chilibowl about that. I didn't want
you there, either. Honest.

Quote:
Lastly, Tinkster...Just because your lips seems to be flapping a milion miles a minute doesn't mean anything of value is coming out of them. It seems the more you say the less any of us wants to hear you.
I love your usage of the royal we :)

Quote:
You are simply an arrogant person, with Bias opinions, who seems to just want to get the last word in by flaming everyone, and hurling insults, especially the newbies.
C'mon Luv, you enter the realms of Linux
after how many years of faithful (or just
thoughtless?) fellowship of the Microsofties
and start a bunch of threads explaining to
us that we should be doing things your way
because that's what you're used to...
you're certainly not going to be a messiah
of the Linux-world anytime soon... maybe
you can do a good job with the gentiles
once you got your bearings with Linux.

Until then: while in Rome, do like the Romans.
The last thing Linux needs is a MS-missionary
since the vast majority of Linux users would
be MS renegades anyway.

[quote[flaming everyone[/quote]
Now, go through all my posts and count the
ones that might be considered insulting, or
"flaming" ... put that into a relation with the
simply helpful or redirecting ones ...
I haven't even flamed YOU yet ... :)

Quote:
Your a disgrace to the Linux community and I think I speak for most when I say....SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!
For most what: arrogant newbie now-it-alls? :}

Quote:
Go back to the Geeks R us cave that you crawled out of and let the rest of us get along peacefully and respectfully. Do us all a favor and DON'T responsed to this...if your smart. (at least if you think you are.)
I don't think I'm smart, but I have been
around for a while and believe I'm reasonably
knowledgable in IT terms, and know a whole
bunch of operating systems from a professional
side ... I certainly am not going to shut
up just because someone who obviously
doesn't have a clue of what he's talking
about doesn't want to listen to me and can't
take to hear facts.

Quote:
What a waste of my time you are.
I could respond with something as witty as
"And you're an utter waste of space" or
something the like, which of course I won't,
since I give everyone the benefit of the
doubt and believe that there's hope for
you, too.


Cheers, and have a good time,
Tink
 
Old 05-05-2003, 04:08 PM   #164
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by Facekhan
Actually what would really make my day being a linux newbie is if application developers would just commit to one standard for compressing files. I don't care if its tar.gz, zip, or any of the others but the biggest pain in my butt is every time I download an application I have to run to these boards to find out how to uncompress it.
You mean as in .zip, .rar, .cab, .arj, .... in
the MS-world? :)

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 05-05-2003, 04:24 PM   #165
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by 322bnh
And cheers to you Tink.
The last paragraph of your post was probably meant as an insult, but since I didn't understand it no offence is taken.
Actually it wasn't ... like in the post with
the gear-stick on the left or right hand side:
I am trying to point out that most migrants/visitors
from the MS world are "culturally insensitive"
and arrogant.

Maybe I would have taken a different aproach
to Linux if I had been raised on MS alone. But
I had half a dozen of different aproaches to IT
in the past, and seen windowing environments
as different as Mac OS, Acorns RISCos, IBM's
OS/2 (which I personally still ike best when it
comes to GUI's ;}), Amigas, Win 3.1 (yuck) and
all it's successors, and IBM mainframes ... and I
started using Linux for server/router purposes
before KDE had hatched ...

I took the time to learn, find my way around in
it (in all of them except for the mainframe and
Riscos) ;) ...

[idealistic/romantic mode on]
What saddens me the most in this thread is the
fact that many of the people don't even realise
what they are up to ... if someone was a real,
hardcore Windows user who knows the guts
of Win and showed some interest in how Linux
works, you could at least have fun with him in
having a techincal discussion.

But to say "I can't use it, change it" is just sad.
It's like going to a foreign country, and rather than
trying to learn about the people and their culture
stick to McDonalds, gang up with a flock of others
from your group, refuse to even learn the most
basic phrases of the country you're in because
English should be spoken everywhere, anyway...

Variation, versatility ... it's the beauty of life, man :)
[idealistic/romantic mode off]

Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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