This is the most controversial thread I have attempted to post so far on a Linux forum, so I should clarify first: I love Linux. I use Linux. I am using it as I type. But I suspect purists may immediately find this blasphemous, so be warned. (The even more controversial subject line was just to attract your attention, really)

The point is this: Ever since I first started using Linux about a year and 4 months ago I've had nothing but trouble.

(Ever since I first started using Windows I've had nothing but trouble too).

Which has led me to the conclusion that computers, in general, are just a complete pain in the neck and not worth the stress (or that I need to get a Mac).

(If you're in a hurry you can skip straight to the last section marked by the stars.)

When I got Mandrake 9.1, the sound didn't work, the LAN didn't work, the video capture card didn't work, the scanner didn't work and the modem didn't work. The latter three still don't.

Since then, through various other distros, I have had stress over a root password failure, incorrect permissions settings, "SMB connection failed", KDevelop corruption, cdrecord failures, K3B freezes, mysterious vanishing of the K3B front-end (as a normal user only), lavrec failures (unresolved) ,intermittent Esound deaths, line-in audio failures, Fedora Core update failures, a case of a CDROM drive not working (unresolved), network setting hell, the old mysterious case of the missing hardware acceleration (don't talk to me about direct rendering), audio mixer settings not being saved, one case of a simple USB mouse not working (how is that possible?!), funny Audacity tempo issues (unresolved), old kernel death and numerous hardware incompatibilities.

I also get a number of crashes, freezes and 'slow-downs' (where the system just becomes stupidly snail-like and unusable) - a number that is quite comparable with those that I used to get with Windows (not quite as many; but comparable).

And get this - I have even had to reboot the computer on at least 2 occasions that I can recall. Total freezes, they were. (I've actually had to reboot more than that, but they were my fault!)

And that's not just on my own PC. That's a collection of problems I've had when administering Linux on the computers of my family, friends and colleagues - all over the place. For most of these systems, I get many of those problems at the same time.

Naturally there is the obligatory software installation stress. I have used RPM, Portage and source builds and I can't say that any of them are reliable in the sense that I thought Linux was. On the one PC on which I decided to install Debian, APT failed to work at all (that's in with the CDROM drive issue above).

(Most of the specific problems I mention have now been resolved, of course.)

***

So I guess what I'm trying to ask is this:
For 16 months of Linux use, is it normal to get such a lot of hassle?


And - yes - I realise that the way Linux works is very (how can I put this?) hotch-potch, as a result of the (nonetheless excellent) peer review-style development process, so I can't expect it to be perfect. But is it not the OS of choice for over 50% of web servers? That's a big responsibility for it. And I can't even run KDE without the PC locking up?

One more thing:
Please, please, please, please don't just say something along the lines of 'if you don't like Linux, why don't you just go back to Windows?' People have said that to me before, but no - no - no - please no - don't make me go back to M$ - no!

Because, honestly, nothing beats my computer experience with Linux.

How many of us consult the HCL before embarking on using Linux? I suspect not many (me included). I must be a freak or something because I enjoy resolving any problems I may be having when using Linux, I would much rather be able to fix things myself than rely on the people at Microsoft to pull their finger out and resolve known and long outstanding problems! Forget the hassles and bask in the knowledge gained :-)

Hardware is really a difficult beast to understand. I've have had several lock-ups with Linux when I first started (also Mandrake). My PC would simply crashes, the three lights in my keyboard (numlock, caps and scroll) would flash and that was it. Later, I've found that the reason of crashing was the cheap inbuilt network card (this is a Intel Desktop mobo). Buying a 10 USD network card fixed this issue.

Similar problems (but not total lock) happened with cheap, unsupported hardware. Some other inbuilt hardware sometimes won't work good, as the sound card on one of my machines. Again, a 10 USD card fixed the issue and improved the sound quality by a long shot.

I never have had the problems you had either (what scanner and printer do you have?). To configure my printer (or better saying, to print something) was pretty easy using a browser and typing localhost:631 when cups was running. To make my USB scanner work, it was only a matter to type "modprobe scanner". USB Joypad's also worked out of the box (modprobe joydev).

The only suggestions I have is:

1) check your log's after a system crash. You might find some interesting clues of what is going on.

2) avoid inbuilt hardware, unless you have to for the lack of PCI slots or crappy case.

3) When running a server, don't use X-server. It is not only a security problem by doing so, but you waste resources and when KDE crashes (and as buggy as it is, it will) and take down stuff with it.

4) Try purchasing USB stuff. I always could get USB devices to work without an issue in Linux by simply loading the correct module.

5) a Mac is never a solution, barely an alternative and waste of money for an underpowered, pricey machine (Pun intended). Just get one if you have money to spend and is willing to learn how Mac works.

6) When one distributions gives you too many headaches, jump to another one. I've always found RPM's distributions to suck the big one, but SuSE was pretty good and is still one of my favorites, even though I don't use it anymore.

I also had to disagree with the part about installing software in Linux not being reliable. Every tool out there (I don't like apt-get) beats hands down the way program in Windows are installed, such as portage (Gentoo), urpmi(Mandy), yast (SuSE) and Ports (FreeBSD, my OS of choice for now). But opinions, as usual, vary (thank God, what boring World we'd be living in if it was otherwise )

Good luck!

The key issues with linux are really to get the latest distro and try to get compatible hardware. Getting some hardware to work is just banging you head against the wall. It's just easier to get a video card that works (nvidia usually) and NIC that works, and a scanner that works... And so forth. Saves a LOT of heartache.

I have little trouble with the 8 linux desktop systems I have running for the family here...

Completely true. I recommend beer, unless you are underage.
Here, the question to you is, do you understand why now.
Mandrake Linux for Windows 6.5: Did not support my video chipset and the desktop was 4 times the size of my monitor, washed out and cartoony. When I discovered the cause I looked for a distribution that specifically supported my video chipset. That would be Suse 6.4. Looked and ran great. No sound, no modem support. I discovered the Winmodem story. An external USR modem got me online. I had a cheap soundblaster soundcard ready for my Mandrake 7.1 install. It worked great. My USB devices (USB drives, USB Zipdrive, USB Digital cameras) all work great. I look for the words USB Mass Storage in the product description. I have a Hauppague TV card I will try out on my soon to be built PC.
Computer users in general need to become familar with what may or may not be supported by their operating system. For instance I am hearing of a lot of people who purchase new all in one fax/scanner/printers only to find they do not work with versions of Windows before XP. Hardware compatibility is not a given.
I have had other correctible issues with Mandrake 8.0 (disable Supermount issue), Suse 9.1 (disable 2.6 kernel auto detection of drives), Slackware 7.1 (need to input your own modem string???).
Use the OS or distro that best suits your needs. Preview others if you wish. Attempt to discover why some things are difficult and learn to make them possible. Sometimes curse your computer. (Please just shut it off and walk away rather than kicking it or throwing it out your window.)
Good Luck.

Hmmm,...

Since switching to SuSE 9.1 I've had very few problems all...

Then again, I grew up using single board computers since the mid 70s... They are kind of intuitive to me now.

Well, yea. Ive been using linux for a while now and lots of things seem to be hit or miss. It was a pain getting sound to work on 2.4 kernel but on 2.6.10 it worked first time. I got my printer working in 2.4 in about 10 minutes but with the 2.6.10 kernel Ive been trying off and on for 3 days, and thats even doing the same exact steps as I did on the old system, Now if I absolutely had to have a printer working then i would probably be pretty upset but I hardley ever print anything. I use linux mostly to browse the internet and learn but if I needed to use it for important stuff right away I would probably have jumped over to my windows box and installed the print drivers and could have been printing in about 5 minutes with no hassles. I agree Linux can be a pain but in the end when Its up and running (after pulling your hair out ) its worth it cuz theres no BSOD or illegal program operation crap or losing data cuz of crashing and the best part is the price. , Although I have purchased redhat and mandrake. 200 bucks for windows is absolutely a ripoff.

Some distros are like that. Some are easier. Linux is not a single OS. That is the biggest myth perpetrated by FUD campaigners. It is a family of Operating Systems based on the Linux kernel originally created by Torvalds and now maintained as Open Source by the community.

So distro is a very misleading term. Slackware I consider as a different OS from Debian simply because of the huge differences between the two.

Fedora is again totally different from Debian.

I think Distribution can sometimes mislead people to think that Linux is one OS. Sure, the kernel is the same, so you'll find a lot of similarities between different distros.

But for all practical purposes consider each distro to be an OS on its own. Slackware is as different from Fedora Core as Linux is to Windows, if you can understand my analogy.

Only the basic skills can be transferred from one Linux distro to another. Other specific things have to be learnt afresh. Thanks to KDE and GNOME at least the desktops are standard across most distributions.

Even the config files can exist in different places in different distros. That's why I mean each Linux flavour is an OS in itself.

Two distros you may want to try:
Mepis
Knoppix
Mepis is a Debian based Live CD and Knoppix is Live CD based on Slackware. Both are very good at detecting hardware. Mepis is much easier to install on the harddrive, at least the last time I tried it was.

I would bet you could boot a later version of either of those distros and have a working Desktop with sound and video correctly configured. The modem and scanner will depend on what type they are. Winmodems are a pain and parallel scanners just dont work. Both of those items are fairly cheap to replace however.

Good Luck.

<edit> Actually Knoppix is also Debian based distro. I was thinking of VectorLinux which is derived from Slack, you probably don't want to try that. Another good distro for difficult hardware is Kanotix.

no I installed fc3 on the first time everything wokrd scanner gboard although 3d support required the same ati obstacle course.
can not relly complain all is peachy here

Before I bought Mandrake 9.1 (I didn't realise it was free originally!), I did research on the Mandrake hardware compatibility database. Most of my hardware was 'know to be compatible' but many things weren't listed; I assumed if they weren't listed it didn't mean they weren't compatible so I'd have to wait and see. With other PCs I admit I haven't bothered much.

The scanner in question is a Canon CanoScan 3000F - a USB scanner which is reported to be incompatible on the SANE project page, along with some similar scanners. It seems nobody who wants to use this scanner with Linux, and I have no idea how to write my own drivers.

The Lexmark P706 USB printer was a promotional model and isn't even on the Lexmark product site, so it's not much of a surprise that it's incompatible. I also had a problem with an Epson Stylus C42UX printer on a colleague's PC with Mandrake Linux 10. I know it's compatible with Linux but that didn't stop it from refusing to function.

The modems in question are USB ADSL modems. To me, USB ADSL modems and Linux don't go together. I had to recommend to someone that they buy a router if they want the Internet to work with Linux - that made me look stupid after saying how brilliant Linux was.

Thanks for the suggestions too, Megaman X. I do use inbuilt hardware quite a lot, except my Radeon graphics cards, which cause trouble anyway.

Mandrake didn't work for me. I now use Gentoo primarily; that caused me much of the aforementioned grief. Fedora Core 1 was a bit of a failure (not a complete failure, though, and I gather the latest versions are much better). SuSE 9 was dead on arrival when I first tried it; then when I second tried it, it refused to install on account of the fact that it didn't recognise that NetBSD partition. I downloaded 2 Slackware 9.1 CDs - they were corrupt. I should have checked the MD5sums before going ahead and installing it!

And I did try MEPIS on that colleague's PC. The sound didn't work, I didn't try the printer, and of course the USB ADSL modem didn't work. Mandrake got the sound going right away.

I'd love to try other distros but what I really need is to stop being paranoid. I was quite impressed with Puppy Linux, though, running in RAM - but the Windows 95 look was scary.


And another thing - why is it that I seem to have all the Windows programs that don't work with Wine? Why is it none of them have Mac versions either? I'd certainly get a Mac if it meant I could get rid of Windows. The sooner I get Windows off my hard drive the better. I can replace it with another distro experiment.

Ive mainly used RedHat / Fedora and have had nothing but success and Im a novice Linux user. On another computer I tried installing Suse 9.1 but I kept getting system freezes and the resolution would display no higher than 640X480 and when I did go in a edit the file the screen went blank and wouldnt come back. Nevertheless I gave up on Suse and went back to Fedora as an old faithful. I have been able to detect and configure with the push of a button every single piece of hardware and peripheral.

Interesting.
I would like to try Slackware and a Debian based distro (as well as Linux From Scratch, to be honest, so that I understand what's going on). The trouble is that I'm paranoid of making major changes to my system in case something goes drastically wrong. Should I bother?

Baryonic Being:

Try Debian proper - Ubuntu makes too many assumptions during installation for my liking. I like to choose which software I'd like to install and Ubuntu doesn't allow this.

Also Ubuntu doesn't come with KDE - only Gnome.

Why not jsut make anouther partition with a new distro on it. It could be you testing partition.

I personaly use Debian and everything is great except my ATI radeon card. (but we all know whats wrong there). Although Sarge is still in its "unstable" stage I ave had no problems at all with it. And once you realise what apt-get can do for you, you will never go back. I even made a shirt about it.