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Old 08-16-2007, 07:11 PM   #1
TheStupid
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Linux is a great OS, but... -vent


OK, I don't want to start a war between Linux and Windows. Windows is really an administrator's nightmare, honestly. (I use CentOS 5.0)

Hey, Linux is such a great OS, but why can't you guys - maybe, we, spend like a month and setup a nice GUI for everything?

I am not talking about some fancy stuff. I am talking about when I install Linux on one partition, and turn it on, it should just load all other partitions automatically. I cannot believe the amount of commands and crap I have to go through to bring my other partitions online.

OK, what's up with all the commands? I know they are cute, but I am getting old and cannot remember commands no more! with GUI, I can find my away around. When I change the IP address via network properties, instead of telling me "you may need to restart network and network service.", why not just restart them for me? for the very least, show me a dialog box and ask me if I want to or not. Now, where do I find the "network and network service?"

Is that really too hard and too much to ask?

I am very proficient with Windows, the amount of work to install a simple program such as Firefox is equivalent to installing a complete OS and configuration in Windows. have to untar this and run that command, and mkdir in this location. In the end, still don't know whether all users can use this or only me.

Maybe it's not fair because I spent years with Windows only days with Linux. In my mind, Linux is a GREAT OS, much better than Windows crap, if and only if we can get the GUI working!!!

Keep the commands if you want to.

Last edited by TheStupid; 08-17-2007 at 12:33 AM.
 
Old 08-16-2007, 07:44 PM   #2
{BBI}Nexus{BBI}
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You don't say which distro you're using, but almost all come with a Package Manager that can install/uninstall packages for you. Again most come with a Administrators Control Centre which can be used to maintain or make system-wide changes. Not to mention a User Control Centre to make changes to every facet of your user desktop. Finally there are docs available that give you an overview of where to find things as well as an overview of common commands. As for the ability to use commandline, I think with time you will appreciate this facility and perhaps find it quicker to use to get things done. You have a steep learning curve ahead of you, I suggest you take time to familiarise yourself with your new op/sys.

This is what it's like when you're given total control over your system (as it was in the days of yore), you have many options to choose from.

Last edited by {BBI}Nexus{BBI}; 08-16-2007 at 07:47 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2007, 08:04 PM   #3
varaahan
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Nowadays a good number of distros automatically mount other partitions without manual intervention. So is the case with cd burning. A good number of useful programs are already built into the distros without ever needing the help of the user.

As regards to your forgetfulness , I too sail in the same boat but I really enjoy the beauty of comradeship with the linux fraternity which is always helpful. In fact I dreaded much about CLI but now I find it not that much harder. As time goes on , you will come to appreciate the true power of linux.
 
Old 08-16-2007, 08:30 PM   #4
rickh
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Quote:
I am very proficient with Windows, the amount of work to install a simple program such as Firefox is equivalent to installing a complete OS and configuration in Windows. have to untar this and run that command, and mkdir in this location. In the end, still don't know whether all users can use this or only me.

Maybe it's not fair because I spent years with Windows only days with Linux. In my mind, Linux is a GREAT OS, much better than Windows crap, if and only if we can get the GUI working!!!
Yours is an old and tired story. "I'm just a whiz-bang Windows administrator, and you guys need to make Linux like Windows so I won't have to learn anything."

Looking through your complaints, it's obvious that you don't know much about Linux. All those things are intended to be automated, and that is your job. By the time you've gotten things working at the level that the most hapless Linux administrator would expect, you'll have learned enough to appreciate why Linux is the way it is.
 
Old 08-16-2007, 08:36 PM   #5
jlinkels
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About forgetfulness: some months ago I could not remember the root pwd of my main desktop machine. That pwd has been the same for 5 years and I use it it least 10 times a day. So I think I am eligible for the Most Forgetful Linux User Award.

Still, I highly appreciate command line interface. IF I can remember the command I use a man page. Open it in one terminal, do my work in the second one. When I cannot remember it, I use Google.

Remember, an average Linux program might have 50 to 1000 lines of config file. If you'd have to put everything in a GUI, the developers would spend MUCH more time developing GUI's than they put in developing their applications. It is much better to put all that time in the application to improve it! After all, a GUI is a stupid thing, creating buttons and tabs for all those lines, nothing more.

What GUI's lead to: I once was proficient in Windows (up to W2k). Last week I had to connect an XP laptop of someone to our office wireless network. I COULD NOT DO IT! Stupid windows popped up. One line said "Connected", then another line said: "Your network is disconnected" and so it was. I had to call for the help of someone else who understood that he had to click on that line "Your network is disconnected" to get into a window to enter credentials. Oh my, I missed "lsmod", "iwconfig eth0 scan", and /etc/networking/interfaces so much!

No, give me a machine with 4 NIC's and a 300 lines iptables script, and I tune the machine exactly how *I* want it. And that is pretty hard in a GUI. Believe it or not, but I even do a lot of image processing in CLI.

I don't deny that there is a somewhat steep learning curve for using the CLI with light speed. On one or two years from now you feel like wearing boxing gloves while using your keyboard if you have to work thru a GUI.

jlinkels

Last edited by jlinkels; 08-16-2007 at 08:37 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2007, 08:53 PM   #6
pixellany
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OK, stupid;
(I'm sorry but you picked that name..... )

First, I am a command-line junkie, and I'll bet I'm older than you. WHY do I like the CLI? Simple: it is the easiest way to do certain things. e.g.: I can type "cp *.jpg /newfolder" faster than you can even find your mouse--much less move all the .jpg files around so that you can select them. The point: modern operating systems are full of tools--some useless--to give you a choice. (Windows does not qualify as a "modern OS"--it is ~15 years old with 43 layers of band-aids and marketing tweaks--but it still has options) I do some things in the GUI because I'm too lazy to figure out how to do them in a terminal......and some things in a terminal because....you get the picture.

Forget how to use a command? Can you remember how to type "man".

The Linux and Open-Source community has given you a choice. You can take it without cost, and put up with people like me on the various fora. You can also pay RedHat, Canonical, Novell, etc. to help you.

YOU decide---but don't get POed at the OpenSource community because they gave you another choice.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 12:32 AM   #7
TheStupid
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What's POed?

The way you guys are looking at it is from an "administrator" or a superuser point of view. I totally agree, Linux is better in that aspect.

Try to see it from a dumb user point of view is what I am trying to say.

I'll give Linux some of my time and see how it goes.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 12:36 AM   #8
reverse
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We are forever grateful that you are going to honor us by giving Linux some more time.

Quote:
I am very proficient with Windows, the amount of work to install a simple program such as Firefox is equivalent to installing a complete OS and configuration in Windows. have to untar this and run that command, and mkdir in this location. In the end, still don't know whether all users can use this or only me.
LOLZ.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 12:58 AM   #9
pixellany
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Quote:
What's POed?
Short for p..... o.. (annoyed will do)

Quote:
The way you guys are looking at it is from an "administrator" or a superuser point of view. I totally agree, Linux is better in that aspect.
Wrong--I am a user

Quote:
the amount of work to install a simple program such as Firefox is equivalent to installing a complete OS
First, why are you installing Firefox? It comes built-in to every distro I have set up lately.
Here's the poorly-kept secret of Linux: Installing SW is far faster and easier than on Windows. Using the modern package manager, there is little to do by find the name of the program, mark for installation, and hit the "go" button. For some users, 95% of the SW they will ever need is in the repositories. Windows has nothing that compares.

And the command-line (terminal). Many Windows users don't even know that such a thing EXISTS--much less how to use it. In Linux, we encourage the use and we provide help. By providing you with all these options and tools, we make you a better person.....
 
Old 08-17-2007, 12:59 AM   #10
ak_random
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
Try to see it from a dumb user point of view is what I am trying to say.
See this from the point of view of a dumb user? Or see a dumb point of view from a user? Either way, your original example of changing IP addresses is neither dumb nor a typical user thing to do -- it is simply a pointless example because the typical user nowadays expects that a computer connected to a network will simply bootup and work; there is no expectation of the need to change an IP address.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 01:05 AM   #11
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
Hey, Linux is such a great OS, but why can't you guys - maybe, we, spend like a month and setup a nice GUI for everything?
We already have one. In fact, we have many. Open your eyes. But perhaps, more importantly, you should open your mind first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
OK, what's up with all the commands?
Are you serious?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
Is that really too hard and too much to ask?
Perhaps you should read this: Linux is NOT Windows
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
I am very proficient with Windows
I'm sure you are...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
In my mind, Linux is a GREAT OS, much better than Windows crap,
A "GREAT OS" which you're having so much trouble with... Hmmm....

Maybe you should spend some time reading the documentation before you make your next comment. It isn't hard to find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStupid View Post
if and only if we can get the GUI working!!!
The GUI works. Either that or my eyes have been deceiving me for the past 8 years.

P.S. Check out this Linux GUI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w

Last edited by rkelsen; 08-17-2007 at 01:10 AM.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 01:17 AM   #12
{BBI}Nexus{BBI}
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This is getting out of hand. I must have missed it when LQ became /. Give the guy a break, he's a noob and has much to learn, I don't think ripping him apart is the way to encourage that.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 03:54 AM   #13
reddazz
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Moved: This thread is more suitable in the General Forum and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 08:29 AM   #14
dv502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by {BBI}Nexus{BBI} View Post
This is getting out of hand. I must have missed it when LQ became /. Give the guy a break, he's a noob and has much to learn, I don't think ripping him apart is the way to encourage that.
We know we need to encourage new linux users and we respect those newbies who give linux a fair amount of time and effort to learn. But, there are some users who are just lazy and start to trash linux after using it a short while. These newbies come to linux with the mindset of Windows. Linux is not windows. If they are not willing to put forth effort in learning linux, then just stick with their windows. The linux community is not going to lose sleep over them.

Last edited by dv502; 08-17-2007 at 08:58 AM.
 
Old 08-17-2007, 09:08 AM   #15
alred
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i'm kind of agree with the stupid ... it should be that way for the younger or future generation when they first started out ...

anyway ... gui-ed programs in linux and other *nix just cant give people that kind of "sure to work and i dont need more options to do more" kind of sercurity or peace of mind when using any systems ...


//can ditch the command line all together ... if we want command line , i guess we can just do a proper installation of linux next time ...


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