LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

View Poll Results: LGBT adoption: may it be against the Human Rights of the Child?
Yes, I would vote that it might be against Human Rights 5 17.86%
No, I would vote that it might NOT be against Human Rights 22 78.57%
Other 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 06-07-2013, 07:27 AM   #61
k3lt01
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Distribution: Debian Wheezy, Jessie, Sid/Experimental, playing with LFS.
Posts: 2,742

Rep: Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Those kids also could have been embarrassed or beaten up for being poor, rich, black, Asian or whatever reason. I see no difference here just because they had a heritage that contains the word Lesbos or because of LGBT parents. I am quite sure that no one wants to forbid black people to adopt white children, or the other way around, just because those children may be harassed in school, so I don't see why this doesn't apply to LGBT couples.
You have totally ignored the last part of my post. Why?

You obviously don;t get it so I'll explain it again. The place where I live and work has all the groups you mentioned in this quote. They are seen as normal to 99% of the people in this district. People may not like them or have philosophical differences with them but they are still seen as normal. Openly GBLT people are not seen as normal in this district yet in a city like Sydney they are because it is an everyday thing not only that the economy relies on it.

Anyway, you asked Xeratul
Quote:
What damages to a child's education or development do you expect if that child is raised by a homosexual couple?
Things are different in different locations and just because you can't see that doesn't mean it isn't reality. I gave you a few examples. I didn't limit myself though because I went on to say, and you have chosen to ignore, that this shouldn't be thought of as an LBGT issue it should be thought of as a minority issue. In Sydney native Lesbians are a minority compared to LGBT people. Your reply to my post, while ignoring I mentioned the fundamental issue, highlights what I posted.

By the way, don't be quite sure of anything. In Queensland not so long ago a non indigenous couple were not allowed by the courts to adopt an indigenous child even though they had the indigenous communities permission to do so. There is a complex case in the Northern Territory right now that is similar. Your blanket one size fits all statement just doesn't work in real life for so many people.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 09:43 AM   #62
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Debian Land
Posts: 1,353

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I think there is only one motivation for allowing LGBT marriage and adoption ... it is purely political. Observing the evolution of this issue on the news can only lead one to this conclusion.

So, Xeratul, have they convinced you ?
I found out by reading more closely law literature, that it might be discrimination against the LGBT if they were not allowed to adopt.

But still, I believe that for the child, it might be not easy every day. That's not the problem. Imagine you have two parents (men). I simply see that a child needs, - and this very much, his mother. It is biologic. The same in the other sense. A man and a woman complete each other.
It is very difficult to describe ("this feeling", Love, or what it may or might be).

EDIT:
I quote (from page 3):
Quote:
Kids can be and are seriously nasty to people who are different to their image of normal. What is considered normal or ...
Actually, kids are not always very friendly with each other. The age between 8 and 12, or 14... Sometimes I cannot believe my eyes at school or in cities, how much aggressive they could be with other kids. They want to be accepted, different... I am glad this period is over.
I do not really know what kids want to prove. They might have two important motivations; I would say:
- "To Have" (<-- modern society: cell phone, Iphone, ...)
- "To Be", within the society where they live.
Kids live now in a modern society, and they are stressed, coming from all directions around.

Good luck, new generations, in modern societies


(In my opinion, the 80's were one of the easiest with regard to jobs, housing, vehicles...)

Last edited by Xeratul; 06-07-2013 at 10:00 AM.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 04:37 PM   #63
TalonNexaris
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Distribution: FreeBSD / Windows 7
Posts: 6

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Hmmmmm, with a moderator taking an active part in thsi discussion and not one warning leveled against Xeratul by any moderator for any post that I can currently see I think you need to justify the fact you are calling him a bigot. LQ has many people from many backgrounds, just because some of us do not agree does not mean any of us are bigots and I find your assertion that Xeratul is a bigot
to be extremely offensive.

Your posts are being reported.
I don't need to justify what I've said. His attitude is insulting and I'm calling him out on it. And looking at your posts, you appear to be in his camp.

I'm not going to sit idly by and let you launch insults against the LGBT community, a community I happen to be a part of.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 05:16 PM   #64
k3lt01
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Distribution: Debian Wheezy, Jessie, Sid/Experimental, playing with LFS.
Posts: 2,742

Rep: Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
I don't need to justify what I've said. His attitude is insulting and I'm calling him out on it. And looking at your posts, you appear to be in his camp.
I'm in no "camp" and your insinuation is pushing your values onto others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
I'm not going to sit idly by and let you launch insults against the LGBT community, a community I happen to be a part of.
I have insulted a community with my post in this thread? Wow, quote them and lets discuss it or apologise for your false accusations.

Let me quote you from another thread using a quote which I believe is rather pertinent in this situation also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
True. I'm just saying that most discussions revolving around systemd that I've seen tend to be emotionally charged rather then technical.
Replace systemd with LGBT and replace technical with honest and you get this
Quote:
I'm just saying that most discussions revolving around LGBT that I've seen tend to be emotionally charged rather then honest.
You may or may not be part of a the LGBT community, notice I said community when you slang off with "camp" to people who you think disagree with you, I have no reason to doubt you. I do however take deep offence when anyone calls someone a name like bigot when that person is showing the same behaviour. People are allowed to have opinions, you cannot force yours on anyone and if you even appear to be doing so using the language you have done so you yourself are a exibiting bigoted behaviour.

Last edited by k3lt01; 06-08-2013 at 05:22 PM.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #65
TalonNexaris
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Distribution: FreeBSD / Windows 7
Posts: 6

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Let me quote you from another thread using a quote which I believe is rather pertinent in this situation also.
Replace systemd with LGBT and replace technical with honest and you get this
We're talking about people in this thread, not software. Regarding the rest of your post, I stand by everything I've said in this thread.

Regarding the thread topic, people have made many of the same arguments about people with dark skin before Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination (and some still do). It was wrong then and it's still wrong now to treat minorities like second-class citizens.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 06:59 PM   #66
k3lt01
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Distribution: Debian Wheezy, Jessie, Sid/Experimental, playing with LFS.
Posts: 2,742

Rep: Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
We're talking about people in this thread, not software. Regarding the rest of your post, I stand by everything I've said in this thread.

Regarding the thread topic, people have made many of the same arguments about people with dark skin before Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination (and some still do). It was wrong then and it's still wrong now to treat minorities like second-class citizens.
Excuse me, you are emotional and have taken your emotion out on me with no reason to. You were disgusted before and called someone a bigot, I am disgusted now because youa re exhibiting bigoted behaviour. You have judged me without knowing anything about me, you have put me in a "camp" while you say you are part of a community. If you can drag yourself to read my posts again I said in a previous post this should not be thought of as a purely LGBT issue but an issue concerning minorities everywhere. Did you see it or are are you choosing to ignore it? If you stand by what you said about bigoted people and me being in a "camp" then let me just say this, you have done nothing to help any cause you are a part of by your behaviour. I have never seen anyone be so judgemental of others when they have 7 posts in total in a forum and 4 of this are in this thread. If you know me you may have a right to judge me by my actions or beliefs none of which you have ever seen or read.

Start discussing this topic in truth not emotion and you may get somewhere, keep going how you are and you'll get no where. I don't give a fat rats if you are LGBT or not it doesn't come into the equation, what I care about is the rights of all people involved. If you have a problem with me caring about everyones rights and not just your rights then that's your problem.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 07:36 PM   #67
TalonNexaris
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Distribution: FreeBSD / Windows 7
Posts: 6

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Excuse me, you are emotional and have taken your emotion out on me with no reason to. You were disgusted before and called someone a bigot, I am disgusted now because youa re exhibiting bigoted behaviour. You have judged me without knowing anything about me, you have put me in a "camp" while you say you are part of a community. If you can drag yourself to read my posts again I said in a previous post this should not be thought of as a purely LGBT issue but an issue concerning minorities everywhere. Did you see it or are are you choosing to ignore it? If you stand by what you said about bigoted people and me being in a "camp" then let me just say this, you have done nothing to help any cause you are a part of by your behaviour. I have never seen anyone be so judgemental of others when they have 7 posts in total in a forum and 4 of this are in this thread. If you know me you may have a right to judge me by my actions or beliefs none of which you have ever seen or read.

Start discussing this topic in truth not emotion and you may get somewhere, keep going how you are and you'll get no where. I don't give a fat rats if you are LGBT or not it doesn't come into the equation, what I care about is the rights of all people involved. If you have a problem with me caring about everyones rights and not just your rights then that's your problem.
I know what you're doing. You're trying to get me to post in such a manner that I get another 8-point infraction by a moderator. Not happening. I'll not respond to anymore of your posts in this thread except for this bit:

Quote:
If you have a problem with me caring about everyones rights and not just your rights then that's your problem.
I care about fair and equal treatment for everyone. I just wish more people believed the same.

This conversation is over.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #68
k3lt01
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Distribution: Debian Wheezy, Jessie, Sid/Experimental, playing with LFS.
Posts: 2,742

Rep: Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
I know what you're doing. You're trying to get me to post in such a manner that I get another 8-point infraction by a moderator. Not happening.
You don't have a clue what I am doing. I posted because I felt strongly about people applying labels to others without any fair reason to, you did this so I called you on it and then you had to play the victim. I have no desire at all to see anyone get any infractions but if you did get one it was because of your own poor behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
I'll not respond to anymore of your posts in this thread except for this bit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
I care about fair and equal treatment for everyone. I just wish more people believed the same.
No you don't, you want to label people, call them bigots, put them in "camp"s, throw of a barrage of other insults. You want your opinion to be the only one and will not allow anyone else to voice theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
This conversation is over.
There are other people in tbis thread who may want to continue this thread after you decide to stop with your personal attacks. Sorry to say this but you played the victim without knowing anything about the people involved in the thread to whom you were playing the victim to. Spend a day in someone elses shoes and you'll see your behaviour in this thread was nothing short of rude.
 
Old 06-09-2013, 01:12 AM   #69
Xeratul
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Debian Land
Posts: 1,353

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 83
Just thinking, simple Note:

what about marriage and adoption for families with three persons? Ex: Family of two women one man.

In terms of law, if the politicians refuse, it is a form of discrimination.

Last edited by Xeratul; 06-09-2013 at 01:36 AM.
 
Old 06-09-2013, 03:22 AM   #70
k3lt01
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Distribution: Debian Wheezy, Jessie, Sid/Experimental, playing with LFS.
Posts: 2,742

Rep: Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
Just thinking, simple Note:

what about marriage and adoption for families with three persons? Ex: Family of two women one man.

In terms of law, if the politicians refuse, it is a form of discrimination.
Anything that stops someone doing something that does not have a negative impact or remove the rights of others is discrimination.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #71
unSpawn
Moderator
 
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 27,451
Blog Entries: 54

Rep: Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
The fact that you're going to such lengths to justify your bigotry is all the more sickening.
As long as they remain within the boundaries of the LQ Rules, netiquette and common sense members are allowed to express themselves freely. The above clearly is not acceptable behaviour. Please do not do that again. And please, is open discussion fostered best by showing an equal lack of intolerance? If there would be talk of prejudice, how would a fellow LQ member expressing unreasonable opinions best be met? Does one really need to resort to an-eye-for-an-eye tactics? Or should he or she be met with reason, calm and tolerance? Do ask yourself: what would actually further the discussion in a constructive way?

Thanks in advance.
 
Old 06-10-2013, 04:13 PM   #72
TalonNexaris
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Distribution: FreeBSD / Windows 7
Posts: 6

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
As long as they remain within the boundaries of the LQ Rules, netiquette and common sense members are allowed to express themselves freely. The above clearly is not acceptable behaviour. Please do not do that again. And please, is open discussion fostered best by showing an equal lack of intolerance? If there would be talk of prejudice, how would a fellow LQ member expressing unreasonable opinions best be met? Does one really need to resort to an-eye-for-an-eye tactics? Or should he or she be met with reason, calm and tolerance? Do ask yourself: what would actually further the discussion in a constructive way?

Thanks in advance.
I had a more combative post typed up, but then decided to delete it. These probably aren't the right forums for me. Frankly, I'm disheartened by this entire topic as I expected a technical crowd to be more progressive.

If I may ask, what's your opinion on this topic?
 
Old 06-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #73
shane25119
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Distribution: Linux Mint XFCE
Posts: 647

Rep: Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeratul View Post
Just thinking, simple Note:

what about marriage and adoption for families with three persons? Ex: Family of two women one man.

In terms of law, if the politicians refuse, it is a form of discrimination.
No it's not. In order to have a valid discrimination claim you have to have the group established as a suspect class. Otherwise the government just needs a rational basis for the restriction.

Polygamous relationships are not recognized as a suspect/protected class. Same-sex couples are.
 
Old 06-12-2013, 01:54 AM   #74
unSpawn
Moderator
 
Registered: May 2001
Posts: 27,451
Blog Entries: 54

Rep: Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
These probably aren't the right forums for me. Frankly, I'm disheartened by this entire topic as I expected a technical crowd to be more progressive.
Threads like these are something the whole LQ Community learns from or so I'd hope. And IMHO it would show a lack of resilience to let one less good experience sour things: LQ doesn't equal the General forum. Ultimately it's only for you to decide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonNexaris View Post
If I may ask, what's your opinion on this topic?
My opinion about this topic is no different than any other thought-provoking discussion I've encountered in the past years (and I've been here a while): you'll soon learn to see which members enter a discussion with an open mind, who truly listen to others and show the willingness to have their opinion changed. The rest is just a grab bag of monologues taking things out of proportion, reiterating the same opinion ad nauseam, smoke screen tactics or worse. A lot of members (eventually) choose not to participate in discussions in this forum. That isn't like it should be but if it's about self-control then that at times may be the most sane course of action.
 
Old 06-12-2013, 05:38 PM   #75
foodown
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 609

Rep: Reputation: 218Reputation: 218Reputation: 218
The benefits that a child gets from being raised by their parents is a result of the parenting effort of their specific individual parents.

Even if you consider homosexuality to be immoral or sinful, you have to concede that heterosexual parents are imperfect and also will do some immoral and/or sinful things. There have been, for example, degenerate gamblers and drinkers who have put in the effort and been more than passable, while imperfect, parents.

Even some politicians have been good parents.

Nobody, including parents, are perfect in this world. (Unless, I guess, you define "perfect" in such a way that everyone is "perfect.")

A parent's sexual orientation does not necessarily define anything about them other than their sexual orientation.

By the way, there have been plenty of homosexual parents who have had natural children through heterosexual activities, either before they started living a homosexual lifestyle, or incidentally, and raised them. So, the whole "natural" argument doesn't hold much water with me.

And, really, the "BT" part of LGBT doesn't even belong in this conversation, since bisexual people certainly have children of their own just as heterosexual people do, and depending on the nature of someone's transgenderedness, transgender people could very well have natural children also.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Web attacks target human rights sites Jeebizz Linux - News 1 01-04-2011 03:09 PM
LXer: Open source to help defend human rights LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 12-11-2007 12:00 PM
LXer: OSS used in fight for human rights LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 03-20-2007 03:46 PM
LXer: Free software working for human rights LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 02-13-2006 10:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration