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Old 11-01-2003, 07:15 PM   #1
chris26
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In defense of Linux haters


You know I was just reading another post on this forum, called "Bye Bye Linux" and I was quite taken back by the ridiculous replies that guy got.
From the "You are too lazy" to the "You are just stupid" replies.

Did I see EVEN ONE person try to assess his problem? Did anyone EVEN ASK what was wrong? No, I just saw a lot of people gripe and complain that yet another linux quiter is expressing his opinion on a linux board.

Some people replied that LINUX WORKS ON ANY COMPUTER, and that its just a matter of how you set it up... Did anyone bother to tell this guy how to set up his computer? Well, Guess what, you are all wrong if you think Linux works on any computer. Lets see, what was that guy's problem? He couldnt get his NVIDIA drivers working under Mandrake 9.1. GUESS WHAT FOLKS.....the NVIDIA drivers DO NOT WORK ON MANY, MANY SYSTEMS! He tried for what, 2 days? I tried for one month!! I tried every suggestion, work around and alternate suggestion that I could find. Finally, some Linux GURU advised that I give it up because its just not possible. Guess what, I use mandrake 9.1, just like he did.

Because of that experience I did not give up on Linux, but I gave up on Mandrake, completely and utterly. However, I understand when people want to quit linux. Mostly its because of the other linux users that complain and gripe that people just dont know what they are doing. I bet that there is not a one among you that could get NVIDIA drivers working on my system. I wonder how you would all feel if you were in that situation?

Linux will only succeed when linux begins to work for people. If you guys really want linux to succeed I would have thought that you would be pushing to get more people's linux machines working. (hence making it more favorable to people).

I dont know, I just felt like a rant when I saw how ridiculous some people were when one guy got frustrated. Linux really is a pain in the a** for some people, help them out instead of laughing at them.
 
Old 11-01-2003, 07:57 PM   #2
trickykid
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Well the problem is we got a large stream of what we call, quitters posts for a short time there and it was getting old. Some it seemed never asked for help, but would post for the first time that they are quitting.

Most members here don't want to hear sob stories of other failures, if your quitting, fine, that's something they need to do. Were here to help. They should ask their questions and recieve answers to solve their problems.

What the majority don't like to see are those sad stories that no one cares about. It does show that they are quitting and giving up without truly trying. But the sad stories are probably meant to try and make us feel sorry for them and rush to give them a hand, tell them, oh no, please don't give up.... come back to Linux.

Its not like that in all cases.

Simply put, ask your questions or ask for help. Leave the sob stories for yourself as most don't care.

You only have two posts I notice, if you've been here long enough, alot of these threads we do have members express what they feel about the subject of quitting and usually end up making the user try, also giving them help in their issues they are having in using Linux.

Regards.

PS. I've reported this post as rants and general discussions (non-questions) belong in General, not Newbie.
 
Old 11-01-2003, 08:15 PM   #3
NewtonIX
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Post a bye bye linux thread is like walking into a gm plant and yelling about how much of a problem it is to tune your engine for street racing and that your gonna go buy a ford

What kind of response do you expect
 
Old 11-01-2003, 08:26 PM   #4
lectraplayer
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If they're gonna do a "bye-bye Linux" thread and they don't tell what the deal is, should we even help them? ...or would it be better to go ahead and whack the thread to make room for another ten incoming questions?
 
Old 11-01-2003, 08:28 PM   #5
nakkaya
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this is not about linux community they are bitching linux on a linux forum this forum is to ask questions or get answers not to bitch linux if they realy wanna do that they should be on a windows forum. and NewtonIX has a good point here.
 
Old 11-01-2003, 08:28 PM   #6
twilli227
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quote:
Did I see EVEN ONE person try to assess his problem?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bye bye, Linux ( post #1)

After spending (wasting) the last two days trying to get nvidia drivers installed under Mandrake9.1, enough is enough. If something takes 10x longer to do in Linux than Windoze, what's the point?

Right now I'm fixing my MBR, going to delete my LInux partitions, and throw away all my Linux disks to avoid the temptation of going back. I simply don't have the time nor patience and benefits of Linux right now are escaping me....

Yes, I'm the guy who tried like h@ll - and failed. Best of luck to the rest of you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What problem are you talking about? How to fix his MBR?
If you have a problem with your NVIDIA, then start a thread and see if anyone here can help you.

quote:
I bet that there is not a one among you that could get NVIDIA drivers working on my system. I wonder how you would all feel if you were in that situation?

Maybe, maybe not, but how will you find out unless you ask. I am sure there are plenty of people here that have gone through some nightmares with linux. If linux is not for you or anybody else, that is not a problem. Use what is best for you. What would happen if I went to windows forum and said the same about windows. Would they welcome me with open arms?
 
Old 11-01-2003, 09:47 PM   #7
akaBeaVis
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Still wondering what is it that makes people think we care? Try posting a "bye bye windows" thread somewhere on a windows forum, does anyone flinch? We're here to help those who actually *want* linux to work for them, not those who *can't decide* or will go with linux if it's *like, really easy or something..*, make a decision for the love of God! And then if you need help here we are...
 
Old 11-01-2003, 09:56 PM   #8
2damncommon
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Quote:
I was quite taken back by the ridiculous replies that guy got.
Rants and flamebait draw those sorts of replies.
I really see no need to insult an operating system and the people who use it because you have decided not to. Someone may have read a couple of insulting "I'm leaving Linux for Windows" threads before voicing their opinion. Perhaps the replies are as poorly written and thought through as the original post, eh?
IMO anyone is welcome to use Linux, Windows, or any operating system they feel they like or need or is useful to them as they see fit.
I would guess everyone here is disappointed everyone can not enjoy using Linux like they do but the truth is that not everyone will like Linux.
 
Old 11-01-2003, 10:45 PM   #9
dalek
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Talking

NVIDIA drivers worked on mine in 9.1. They don't in Mandrake 9.2 because some nut left out the kernel sources on the CD. That person I would like to talk to. Where's that hammer at?

I can't fix a lot of the problems that people have but I try. If I can help, I post what I know. If they are getting no help, I google and try to find some good links that may help. Some newbies don't know about google 4 linux yet.

It would be nice to have some way to know that the problem is fixed though.

Later

 
Old 11-01-2003, 11:17 PM   #10
mass_nerder
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewtonIX
Post a bye bye linux thread is like walking into a gm plant and yelling about how much of a problem it is to tune your engine for street racing and that your gonna go buy a ford

What kind of response do you expect
----------good analogy rofl
 
Old 11-01-2003, 11:26 PM   #11
exodist
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nobody told me how to install it on my comp 4-5 years ago, nobody told me to do this or that and nobody babied me through it, I had to exhert some effort, and btw you might want more than 2 posts before trying to express something about linuxquestions.org, because your post count does not help you any.

and reading the post I would say the guy went into linux expecting or even hoping to fail looking for any excuse only doing it so he can say he tried (falsly) and there are hundreds if not thousands of nvidia threads, and the strange thing is nvidia is so friggan easy as the first thing I got working 4-5 years ago.
 
Old 11-02-2003, 12:21 AM   #12
mark_alfred
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I've been using linux for a while now, but I still find it difficult. When I first obtained Linux, I expected all sorts of things, none of which were true. 1.) the manufacturers of a purchased boxed set of Linux would be very helpful - FALSE --> AST computers and Microsoft were much more helpful to me when I had bought Windows 95 some years ago than either Mandrake or SuSE have been with me today. 2.) Linux is ultamitely cheaper due to being able to freely upgrade - FALSE --> installing newer programs with higher dependency requirements often causes all sorts of conflicts, and many upgrades are not backwardly compatible (aka RPM Hell). 3.) Linux is more stable - FALSE --> it's about the same. I'm constantly having to xkill. 4.) There is a helpful open source community - SOMEWHAT TRUE, but the issues that require help are ones that would not come up with Windows, ie, my modem (or scanner, sound card, printer, monitor, parallel port, etc) doesn't work. Also, so many people use Windows, that if there is a problem, I could phone 'em up and talk to em quite easily, whereas the number of Linux users is so much less. 5.) It is just as easy as Windows once you get the hang of it - FALSE --> anyone who believes this is deluded, pure and simple. I run a web server, and spent huge amounts of time trying to figure stuff out that a friend of mine (running a webserver on Windows) had already figured out with relative ease. 6.) The programs are just as good - mostly FALSE, though some are excellent. Word processing programs usually don't print correctly, and have no spell checker. The games are definately not nearly as good.
I think Linux has great potential, but it's not there yet. Unless you're a very educated programmer (which I'm not), or a regular user who loves messing around with computers (which I am), avoid Linux in all it's forms.

Small error I made: when I was referring to programs in #6, I mentioned that Word Processors do not have spell checkers. They do, actually. What I meant is that they do not have GRAMMAR checkers, unlike their Windows counterparts.
Also, my modem is a US Robotics hardware modem, and not a winmodem. Faxing programs will not work, the distributor does not consider this a support issue, and I've not been able to get an answer from the online linux community (as a further example of difficulties often encountered by linux users.

Last edited by mark_alfred; 11-02-2003 at 11:34 AM.
 
Old 11-02-2003, 12:32 AM   #13
akaBeaVis
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~ apparently this post was the "draw" for the flames that follow...deleted. Flame no more. ~

Last edited by akaBeaVis; 11-11-2003 at 10:29 PM.
 
Old 11-02-2003, 12:36 AM   #14
exodist
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thanks mark_alfred for your list of opinions I will think about them for a few seconds as i reply ;-)

tructh is everyone is different, with my mentaility on using config text files rather than utils linux is 100x easyer. but to someone like my mom who does nto understand such things windows is easyer. all in all everything you said is really only true to you. like rpm's.. yes rpm hell exixsts, but I have never seen it as I compile verything, it isn't hard to type ./configure && make && make install. though you seem to think it is.. hmm, you used every one of those keys except "&" in your message they can't be to hard to find.

as for crashing, you obviously use an rpm distro (redhat/dude/mandrake) thats your problem, you can't expect much from an os based of an os from aol (rh) plus they truly are the @$$ of linux, unless you count the traitorous caldera.

I use beta and prebeta software for everything, icluding the 2.6 branch kernel and at most I crash once a month, I am a beta tester and I see almost no probs, My comp is constantly working all day doign everything from games to programming to image manipulation and 3d rendering, it also serves files and manages my home windows domain for my bro/parents... even a dual link 56k router and dial in for personal use, you name it i do it and it is a hell of a lot mroe stable than windows ever was.

as for support from the makers, I do not want nor ask for it, 4-5 years ago I got slackware 7.1 using the slackware guide (short reference book) and in a month I had my own kernel/drivers/almost everything and anything I needed going, I never wnet back, I am 20 now, so 15 or so then and I got it. I still get it, before that I was windows only with no programming or advanced experiance other than fiel sharing and gaming.

I am not saying linux is for everyone as I mentioned when starting everyone is different my mentality makes linxu better, faster, stabler, and easyer. if it isn't for you use windows I don't care, just don't try and say we are wrong because you don't get it.
 
Old 11-02-2003, 12:53 AM   #15
megaspaz
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Quote:
Originally posted by mark_alfred
I've been using linux for a while now, but I still find it difficult. When I first obtained Linux, I expected all sorts of things, none of which were true. 1.) the manufacturers of a purchased boxed set of Linux would be very helpful - FALSE --> AST computers and Microsoft were much more helpful to me when I had bought Windows 95 some years ago than either Mandrake or SuSE have been with me today. 2.) Linux is ultamitely cheaper due to being able to freely upgrade - FALSE --> installing newer programs with higher dependency requirements often causes all sorts of conflicts, and many upgrades are not backwardly compatible (aka RPM Hell). 3.) Linux is more stable - FALSE --> it's about the same. I'm constantly having to xkill. 4.) There is a helpful open source community - SOMEWHAT TRUE, but the issues that require help are ones that would not come up with Windows, ie, my modem (or scanner, sound card, printer, monitor, parallel port, etc) doesn't work. Also, so many people use Windows, that if there is a problem, I could phone 'em up and talk to em quite easily, whereas the number of Linux users is so much less. 5.) It is just as easy as Windows once you get the hang of it - FALSE --> anyone who believes this is deluded, pure and simple. I run a web server, and spent huge amounts of time trying to figure stuff out that a friend of mine (running a webserver on Windows) had already figured out with relative ease. 6.) The programs are just as good - mostly FALSE, though some are excellent. Word processing programs usually don't print correctly, and have no spell checker. The games are definately not nearly as good.
I think Linux has great potential, but it's not there yet. Unless you're a very educated programmer (which I'm not), or a regular user who loves messing around with computers (which I am), avoid Linux in all it's forms.
1. true - support sucks from the vendors does suck. but you're using windows 95 as your benchmark? please. windows support used to be very good in the days of windows 3.1 and word for 3.1. now it sucks just as bad. sent in a bug report to MS VS a while ago. got a fix and a statement saying i wouldn't be charged because it's a known issue. so if i sent a bug report of an unknown issue, they'd charge me? purely retarded.

2. yep dependancy hell sucks. but you can avoid that crap if you use your distros updating tools instead of trying it yourself. but then again even stuff i've upgraded not through those tools have ever broken anything. lots of things in windows aren't also backword compatible. ask those nero/adaptec users who had to pay for upgrades after they upgraded to winxp. but even with software, it just becomes redundant and costly after a certain amount of versions to support older versions. case in point, the new vb which doesn't support vb6 projects. need to rewrite vb6 proggies. it happens.

3. can be true. depends on your windows reference. more stable than win9X-ME. oh yeah it is. as far as your problems. don't know why you keep having to use xkill. i don't. stable laptop system for me. setup maybe?

4. once again, not a linux thing. did microsoft provide you drivers for you video, scanner, monitor, etc? no. that's the vendors job. as far as your "modem", chances are you're talking about winmodem which is software made to run on windows. does software on windows run on linux? no. what were you expecting? vendor responsibility here too. people are working hard to make "winmodems" work on linux.

5. nice blanket statement. you guys want everyone to see things your way, but when it comes down to it, when others' experience contradicts yours, we're delusional (and yes, there are those that do the opposite). as an individual, i don't do that, but i also don't like it when a "newbie" comes here with a first post of i really tried but linux sux because of yada yada yada. well your first post without a question doesn't constitute trying for me. i'm not gonna doubt that you had/have a hard time with linux, but i didn't. from my pov, it is just as easy as working windows. don't go calling me delusional though because my experience is different with yours.

6. pretty true. the core apps like media players and office suites are though. bad example with the office suites. OpenOffice does pretty good with closed MS office formats and has a spell checker. look it up. game selection isn't that great. you do basically have little choice. a few of the popular games do have linux ports though. but again, that's a vendor thing if you want those popular games on linux. but ut2k3, quake, nwm work and play just as good (if not better) than their windows version.
 
  


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