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Old 09-26-2013, 11:12 AM   #31
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Why on earth would a bunch of people producing a free (as in speech) OS which you have to make a specific choice to even let something in which doesn't have a free license do anything remotely like canonical?
I don't think you have to worry about Debian going the way of Ubuntu since it is non-profit and strives to be free.
You're right, of course- but I guess what I really meant, was that I fear Debian may pander to the mainstream consumer, and just keep dumbing the OS down/implementing a touch-screen friendly motiff, like the dreaded Windows 8/etc. I mean, they already have dumbed it down quite a bit...or I wouldn't be able to use it !
 
Old 09-26-2013, 11:28 AM   #32
Sumguy
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Originally Posted by Pap View Post
That is exactly the reason I never even tried Ubuntu. Besides, the "over 30k of packages" Canonical blatantly advertises are .deb's. And, even after many years, they don't dare breaking full compatibility with Debian. What did they contribute to Linux community, really? Unity? Let me laugh here.
I don't see why using a poor copy instead of the real thing.
Very true! I tried Ubuntu as a transition from Win-D'ohs.... I was interested in Debian from the git-go...but I had heard lots of horror stories, making me think that as a noob, I'd be lost with it. [Either Debian was drastically different in the past...or the horror stories were fraudulent, because I find absolutely NO difference in using Debian vs. Ubuntu, as far as ease of use and noob friendliness] (I ditched Windows 3 years ago, but am still very much a Linux noob, because I didn't learn anything using Ubuntu- which is not a criticism of Ubuntu- but rather a testament to the fact that it just worked and did what I needed it to do..... But now with Unity and all spyware/crapware, I'm sure that that is no longer the case)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pap View Post
Well, install Debian using the "minimal" option - only the kernel and the basic GNU stuff, then start to build up your system by adding exactly what you need and nothing more -> No bloat at all.
Hey...if I could do that, I'd be using Arch! How about Crunchbang? I hear it's like a bare-bones Debian, but with enough of t5he goodies to make it usable for someone like myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pap View Post
As for the last part - Debian will never go the Canonical way. Reason: it's free as in "freedom", there is no company behind the product, and Debian developers don't give a... sheet if someone makes money by copying their distro.
But that won't keep them from emulating Win-D'ohs...dumbiung it down; adding more eye-candy and silly apps for the Facebook generation..... IMHO, since Ubuntu and Mint, et al exist for people transitioning from Windows and Mac, Deb should focus more on being the more serious OS- but perhaps it's an issue of where do you draw the line?

Last edited by Sumguy; 09-26-2013 at 11:31 AM.
 
Old 09-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #33
Pap
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Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Very true! I tried Ubuntu as a transition from Win-D'ohs.... I was interested in Debian from the git-go...but I had heard lots of horror stories, making me think that as a noob, I'd be lost with it.
Those horror stories should be really ancient rumors, definitely before I tried Debian for the first time, which is more than 10 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Hey...if I could do that, I'd be using Arch! How about Crunchbang? I hear it's like a bare-bones Debian, but with enough of t5he goodies to make it usable for someone like myself.
It is not as difficult as it sounds. Don't forget you will have the best packaging system supporting you. Just install the absolute minimal stuff, then try to install, e.g., the lxde package. That will force installation of everything needed, including a X-Server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
But that won't keep them from emulating Win-D'ohs...dumbiung it down; adding more eye-candy and silly apps for the Facebook generation..... IMHO, since Ubuntu and Mint, et al exist for people transitioning from Windows and Mac, Deb should focus more on being the more serious OS- but perhaps it's an issue of where do you draw the line?
Well, Debian itself is not related to eye-candy or silly applications. For example, Debian has KDE and gnome3 in the repos, which is full of eye-candy useless stuff. It is your responsibility to install it or not. None stops you from just ignoring that stuff and never install it. That applies to other Debian-based distros, of course, but they actually try to make you believe you have to go the eye-candy way.
 
Old 09-26-2013, 04:01 PM   #34
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
But that won't keep them from emulating Win-D'ohs...dumbiung it down; adding more eye-candy and silly apps for the Facebook generation..... IMHO, since Ubuntu and Mint, et al exist for people transitioning from Windows and Mac, Deb should focus more on being the more serious OS- but perhaps it's an issue of where do you draw the line?
Debian is and was always "The unversal operating system", the OS for every one. This includes the "Facebook generation", people transitioning from one OS to the other and people that use it for "serious" (however you define that) stuff. There is no line to be drawn.
 
Old 09-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #35
Sumguy
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TobiSGD and Pap,

Good points! And don't get me wrong- I really like Debian. As far as computers go, I'm largely oblivious...but I have to say, I installed Debian, and it just worked! (Even Ubuntu 10.04 took a little futzing around to be usable when I installed it 3 years ago!).

I did kind of expect though (with Debian) that I would be presented with a list of what I wanted to install or not install upon installation. Obviously, that's not the case- but as Pap says, one does have the option to do a minimal install and build from there. I really just did my current installatiuon as a way to test Debian, and to prepare to get away from Ubuntu. What I plan to do, is play around with installing Debian on VirtualBox now....so I can figure out what all the various options are, and learn to pare it down to exact system that I want......and then do an install that way, when I know what I'm doing, on my HDD. I guess it truly is a universal operating system.

At least on a VM, I can Google things along the way that I don't have a clue about...so I can pick the appropriate options. I now realize I shouldn't have picked "Noatide" (I thought I had to choose something...and it was at the top of the list! ).

This is what initially attracted me to Debian- the idea of being able to install just the exact system one wants, without a bunch of useless crap....and yet being a system that is simple enough/has a good GUI to allow a noob like myself to use it without delay or frustration. That indeed is Debian.

(Sorry...but I still get a little worried abouit the future when I see them include something like Rygel.... but at least they do allow us the option, so that my permanent system will not have to have it)
 
Old 09-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #36
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I know walking the path where you\we control the software may take more work (e.gS: expert installs or builds and such) but gives more satisfaction and we\you enjoy the benefits
 
  


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