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rdx 09-20-2013 01:07 AM

I am very troubled by the trends in software
 
I just bought a new system, first one in a long time. It came with Windows 8.

Windows 8 is spammed with a huge amount of crap software that you have to register and pay for to use. Used to be you could get those programs off the net if you wanted them but you weren't forced to deselect them. Even Microsoft office is like that, it's on the disk but to use it I have to agree to pay rental fees. The whole thing makes me wonder if the computer is really new. It seems second hand to me since a dozen or more companies have loaded their programs on it before I got it.

But worse is the common interface for all devices. I have a desktop PC, why do I want features designed for a smart phone? Everything is pushing us toward an experience controlled and scripted for us before we know anything about it. I know I'm weird, I want to use a computer to compute and I don't care about socializing via the net or buying loads of crap which is pushed in my face. But Window 8 does everything it can to steer me away from what I want and into the snares of fluff sellers.

For the most part Linux is different. I have solid software development support with the choice of many languages. With Linux I feel like I actually own the machine, that it is there to serve me, that I get good value for my effort and money. There are some Linux distros that seem to strive to emulate Windows and I think that's a shame but I can live with it unless they start trying to sell me ctap I don't want.

Randicus Draco Albus 09-20-2013 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdx (Post 5031153)
But worse is the common interface for all devices. I have a desktop PC, why do I want features designed for a smart phone? Everything is pushing us toward an experience controlled and scripted for us before we know anything about it.

In addition to the motivation of making more profit, it is also a result of the people the current system creates. I call them the Nintendo generation, but that was early in the process. (Showing my age.:o) The current crop of youngsters have zero imagination. They have been trained to, and therefore expect, everything imaginative to be done for them. Movies with mind-blowing special effects and lots of action, but nothing important like good plot and acting. It was only a few years ago in North America, I forget if it was Canada or the U.S.A., that people seriously suggested replacing real books with audio books, because books are too boring for today's children to read. People use Facebook et al and surf the net on telephones, because that is all they know. A "traditional" computer screen is a boring piece of flat real estate in front of eyes whose only purpose is to let in visual effects and scenes. In other words, the trend is due to avaricious corporate executives wanting to sell things and the need to dumb the computer experience down to the level of the lowest common demoninator, which is very low today.

TenTenths 09-20-2013 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdx (Post 5031153)
Windows 8 is spammed with a huge amount of crap software that you have to register and pay for to use. [...] It seems second hand to me since a dozen or more companies have loaded their programs on it before I got it.

These companies pay the hardware manufacturer for the privilage of pre-installing their software on a demo/time-limited trial basis.

They do this on the hope that people will stick with it and register / pay for it.

Theoretically your hardware manufacturer passes some of this on to you as a lower priced computer.

It's unfortunately the economics of PC sales.

(P.S. While I'm a Windows 7 guy for PC/Workstations/Corporate Desktops, I think Win8 sucks!)

cynwulf 09-20-2013 05:17 AM

Just hose it and install a real OS.

NGIB 09-20-2013 05:32 AM

Thank the Lord they sell refurbished computers so I can get newish hardware without the crap that is Windows 8. I have been searching for the "perfect" linux distro ever since this monstrosity was announced...

dugan 09-20-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdx (Post 5031153)
Windows 8 is spammed with a huge amount of crap software that you have to register and pay for to use.

It's not Windows 8.

That's always been how OEM PCs are. That's why you build your own, or buy from a builder.

273 09-20-2013 01:30 PM

The SPAM software is also one reason why the Linux machines that some manufacturers sell are the same price as the Windows ones. They get Windows at a discount from MS for bulk and because they include the Office "free trial", then other companies pay them to install crud and before you know it Windows costs the OEM nothing.
As dugan says that's why it is best to buy from a builder or build your own and that goes for Windows machines also, in my opinion. Though for laptops that's generally difficult or expensive, sadly.

jamison20000e 09-20-2013 02:04 PM

...new-windows-v-linux-thread-848145/ (mac$ too)

Linux wins ;)

Habitual 09-20-2013 02:06 PM

Callled shovel-ware, as they shovel it onto retail systems.

Pap 09-20-2013 02:08 PM

This:
Quote:

Originally Posted by cynwulf (Post 5031258)
Just hose it and install a real OS.

Actually, the first thing you should do when buying a computer with OS pre-installed is to format the disk and install a real OS, the way you want it. Even if computer comes with Linux installed, the distro might not be what you really wanted, might have a packaging system that is not the best one out there, or might come with lots of installed packages useless to you.

273 09-20-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pap (Post 5031574)
This:


Actually, the first thing you should do when buying a computer with OS pre-installed is to format the disk and install a real OS, the way you want it. Even if computer comes with Linux installed, the distro might not be what you really wanted, might have a packaging system that is not the best one out there, or might come with lots of installed packages useless to you.

The problem with that, of course, is that warranty claims become a lot more difficult as often even you the user don't know whether it's a hardware or software problem.

Pap 09-20-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5031583)
The problem with that, of course, is that warranty claims become a lot more difficult as often even you the user don't know whether it's a hardware or software problem.

I don't see why warranty is voided if you just install another OS than the one manufacturer has pre-installed.
Two years go, when I was working at a University, computer administrator had a Linux bootable CD handy all the time (It think it was Debian - or OpenSuSE, not sure.) Anyway, users were often asking for help (the usual info provided was the not so informative "my computer doesn't work"). Since most of them had Windows installed, he used to boot from his disk and run a few "heavy" applications from there, which forced heavy use of CPU, memory, and disk. If computer was working as expected, he suggested that Windows were corrupted, what is needed is backing up data and re-install Windows from a ghost image. If, on the other hand, computer hanged, he opened the case and started looking at the hardware for issues.
An example: There was a PC where Windows used to freeze seconds after booting; Linux freezed as well, but only after heavy use. Reason: CPU fan was not working properly, which made Windows to hang immediately, as they use the CPU a lot, just to see the task bar; Linux resisted as it makes way less use of the CPU, and hanged only after running really heavy applications for a while.

vmccord 09-20-2013 02:58 PM

The part that upsets me most is the when this system of trials and offers and pre-loaded junk actually preys upon the under-educated. Everyone here LQ world is smart enough to recognize real features and software from marketing ploys and advertisements. Too many elderly and under-educated get bamboozled into thinking something is required when it's really not. Helping a retired COBOL programmer unsnarl Windows is heartbreaking.

273 09-20-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pap (Post 5031613)
I don't see why warranty is voided if you just install another OS than the one manufacturer has pre-installed.

I didn't say voided, I said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5031583)
...warranty claims become a lot more difficult as often even you the user don't know whether it's a hardware or software problem.

It goes something like this:
Buy a laptop.
Boot Windows, things seem to work.
Wipe Windows completely.
Install Linux.
WiFi card won't connect.
Where now?
The same goes for web cams, graphics cards, touchpads and a multitude of other hardware where you can't guarantee that the Linux install will work with it.
Of course, you can usually install a few of the more popular Linux distros out there and you should find one that works if the hardware does but can you guarantee it?
You also can't demonstrate to the people in the store you bought the PC from that the device doesn't work either -- making invoking the sale of goods act here in the UK (and the relevant ones in other countries) that much harder to invoke.
I think there's somebody here calling for a boycott of Newegg or one of the other online retailers for actually voiding the warranty for removing Windows though, if you insist that there can't be any problems unless companies do that.

Pap 09-20-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5031621)
It goes something like this:
Buy a laptop.
Boot Windows, things seem to work.
Wipe Windows completely.
Install Linux.
WiFi card won't connect.
Where now?
The same goes for web cams, graphics cards, touchpads and a multitude of other hardware where you can't guarantee that the Linux install will work with it.
Of course, you can usually install a few of the more popular Linux distros out there and you should find one that works if the hardware does but can you guarantee it?
You also can't demonstrate to the people in the store you bought the PC from that the device doesn't work either -- making invoking the sale of goods act here in the UK (and the relevant ones in other countries) that much harder to invoke.
I think there's somebody here calling for a boycott of Newegg or one of the other online retailers for actually voiding the warranty for removing Windows though, if you insist that there can't be any problems unless companies do that.

You have a point here - although I must add most modern distros will just detect such devices correctly - unless you have exotic hardware. I had minor issues with WiFi cards, and, more often, with laptop/netbook "software switches", such as increase/decrease screen brightness etc, but solved most (not all) of them - probably because I didn't search more than what was needed to solve the most important of those issues. For example, I am pretty sure I could make that "windows" key on my keyboard work, and find a use for it - or I could make my laptop to "hilbernate" each time I close the laptop's lid. I just didn't bother - why bother if I can just turn off the laptop instead, knowing it will turn off in a few seconds, and I can boot it up later, also in seconds?


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