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Old 11-03-2012, 11:02 PM   #31
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I must say that this statement troubles me.

Anisha's question is not about raising a child.
It is actually.

"How to raise a child between agnostic parent and believer relatives?" is the title of this thread. The very basic premise of this topic is the parents ability to raise the child as they see fit. It is easy to pick at either side of the equation just as it is easy to replace both words with drunk and tea totaller. The real issue is not about being religious or agnostic instead the real issue is about the parents ability to raise the child as s/he sees fit without outside interference. No doubt the child will eventually choose to make up their own mind, just as the adults in the childs life had done before them, so it is up to the parent to decide what the child will be exposed to and the parent then has to stand by those choices.
 
Old 11-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #32
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Not to quibble, but to quibble.

Semantics to the contrary notwithstanding, OP seems quite clear on how she wants to raise the child.

The issue is dealing with meddlin' in-laws.

I've been lucky. My in-laws were never meddlin', but I know plenty of folks whose parents or in-laws tried to run (spelled r-u-i-n) their married lives and families, and it seldom turned out well if they failed to deal with it effectively.

I would say that OP is wise to anticipate problems so as to try to avoid them.
 
Old 11-05-2012, 04:48 AM   #33
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Interesting and difficult problem---in any culture. I would not want to be trying "western wisdom" in an "eastern" or "far-eastern" culture. This said, I **would** think that the parents, working together, need to decide how the child will be raised. Once that's done, then determine how to advise relatives of those decisions.
 
Old 11-05-2012, 08:09 AM   #34
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... and, "gods don't need people to believe in them." People generally do need to believe in gods. At some point in your life and probably at multiple points, you (and your child, and the parents) will confront these things which lie "beyond ourselves."

I think that if you present, "this is 'right' and that is 'not right,'" you're just setting the stage for a thoroughly mixed-up teenager. Because there are things that are bigger than us, no matter how we describe them. I was just the other day reading in the Book of Judith, which you can find in any good bookstore as part of the "Apocrypha" writings. I think that there's one exceptionally sobering line that Judith, the heroine, says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judith 8:14 (NRSV):
"You cannot plumb the depths of the human heart or understand the workings of the human mind; how do you expect to search out God who made all these things, and find out his mind or comprehend his thought?"
(P.S.: It's a really great story, and Judith is a very savvy woman who is given a lot of really insightful soliloquies, as for that matter is the anti-hero, Holofernes. If you haven't read The Apocrypha in a good translation, you're missing some great stuff along with the usual drivel.)

Anywhere and everywhere that you see humanity, you see these beliefs in some form. These are obviously very human characteristics that I think ought to be treated with kid gloves. Throughout all of human history, you see men and women and children wrestling with the same things. Therefore, I think that you might not wish to impose a sense of judgment upon anyone else's point-of-view, especially those of someone whom you do, at this period of time, have substantial influence upon. "This is what I believe. This is what they believe. You will in due time choose what you believe, and during the course of your life your beliefs might change and so might mine."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-05-2012 at 08:14 AM.
 
Old 11-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #35
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Children are remarkably capable of sifting through things like this on their own.

The important thing is to be honest with your children about what you believe as well as the fact that other people believe different things, and that any or all of you could be wrong.

If you impress upon he or she that they are free to decide for themselves what to believe or not and that they can always change their mind later on, that will be sufficient.
 
Old 11-07-2012, 12:55 AM   #36
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Anisha, why are you so worried about raising your *future* child in an 'agnostic' environment? Is not that another side of thrusting our views on children?

If you are married you must be atleast around 25yrs. You say you turned agnostic few months back, inspite of being raised in a traditional family. So people can change, at any time, right?

What was your inspiration/influence? Books, speeches, movies, friend-circle? Provide the same to the child. They will discover things for themselves. Definitely there will be friction at some point. But that's how things will be.

I'm in the same boat. I'm an agnostic but my relatives, esp., in-laws are all religious. I have a little angel and I want her to be independent. But you know what? I'm not worried like you. I know she will find her way. Have faith in your *future* child. :-)
 
Old 11-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #37
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The only thing you should worry about is religious fanatics shoving "ideas" down a child's throat ... usually done at a place of "worship" whatever their name may be.

You say you are agnostic, which according to its definition means

Quote:
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic?s=t

I recommend sticking to this if you believe it. I would say it is more of an intermediate state in which you question things. This is a good thing, and the same should be encouraged of your children. Ask them what they think, and encourage them to think. Don't tell them that there is a truth and that you know it, because it might be false.

Truth can always be derived logically.
 
Old 11-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #38
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Approach it like a study and take it as a grain of salt.

Always have conversations about religion as academic study. Christianity always hits me like it never got out of the rough-raft stage. Example; where is the technology of heaven? If the Jews are still waiting for Jesus, does this mean that Jesus was not all that impressive? I don't take things from people without giving something back to fill the void but Religions are abstracted by their creators for a reason. Beliefs anchor other beliefs so this should be why a believer believes what they do. If you want to go to heaven ,rearrange all the other dots of life to come to that conclusion and make those things that do exist imaginary.
 
Old 11-11-2012, 08:40 PM   #39
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I'm not a "believer." My son's mom (my ex-wife) is.

I didn't try to keep him from believing anything. He went to his mom's place of worship with her while he was growing up. I just tried to live right and be a good example and let him make up his own mind about that stuff. I tried to talk about things with him as much as possible, explain (as best I could) what other people believe. I tried not to influence his thinking (not sure how successful I was at that), but to encourage him to use his own head.

He's in college now, and he isn't a "believer," either. But if he changes his mind, that's up to him. As for the relatives, it's none of their dang business.
 
Old 11-12-2012, 12:19 AM   #40
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKbStockpiler View Post
If the Jews are still waiting for Jesus, does this mean that Jesus was not all that impressive?
If you read up on Judaism you would know that Jews expect the "messiah" to rebuild the temple in 3 days. Jesus said his body was the temple but Jews expect the temple (i.e. an actual physical building) to be rebuilt on Temple Mount in a time span of 3 days.
 
Old 11-15-2012, 07:44 AM   #41
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Hi Anisha.

I think leave it to the child. A child knows nothing about any way to understand God and stuff related to it. Just tell him/her what they are doing. That is, the exact way, "havans/etc/" and what it is for. Since it will stuck in his/her mind and IF he is inquisitive enough he will soon find out. Because nobody with curiosity has been left unanswered for his quest even amidst the extremists. We find people who become atheists because of who? Themselves! They listen to their parents in their childhood, grow, think again, listen, think again, find discrepancies, listen, feels crappy, listen, and give it up by HIS/HER own convincing not because of even parents. I guess, tell her/him the way things are going. If he/she is a smart ass, soon he will have a way of his/her dealing with such stuff.

P.S. Just what I thought. I can see no other way.
 
Old 11-15-2012, 07:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saivnoba View Post
Anisha, why are you so worried about raising your *future* child in an 'agnostic' environment? Is not that another side of thrusting our views on children?

If you are married you must be atleast around 25yrs. You say you turned agnostic few months back, inspite of being raised in a traditional family. So people can change, at any time, right?

What was your inspiration/influence? Books, speeches, movies, friend-circle? Provide the same to the child. They will discover things for themselves. Definitely there will be friction at some point. But that's how things will be.

I'm in the same boat. I'm an agnostic but my relatives, esp., in-laws are all religious. I have a little angel and I want her to be independent. But you know what? I'm not worried like you. I know she will find her way. Have faith in your *future* child. :-)

Oops, already beaten. THIS.
 
Old 11-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #43
johnsfine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
If you read up on Judaism you would know that Jews expect the "messiah" to rebuild the temple in 3 days.
There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

More obviously, your use of that idea as the reason Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, is unsound because at the time that Jesus was supposedly there the temple had not yet been destroyed.

Last edited by johnsfine; 11-15-2012 at 08:28 AM.
 
Old 11-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #44
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsfine View Post
There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

More obviously, your use of that idea as the reason Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, is unsound because at the time that Jesus was supposedly there the temple had not yet been destroyed.
The first temple was detroyed in 586 BC, the second which started under the orders of Cyrus the Great, was halted because of conflict with the remnants who actually stayed behind during the captivity and started again under Darius many years later. It also had an alter to Zeus built in it during the Sellucid reign. Herod the Great was the one who actually had most of the building work done to it (in the 1st century AD), infact he pretty well totally rebuilt it but his purpose was to make sure his name was remembered throughout history. While it was a temple built on Temple Mount it was not the temple the Hebrew people wanted instead they wanted Solomon's temple. So you may think I am wrong simply because of a date but you need to know a bit more about their history and culture than just dates to make such a judgement call.

I'm done discussing this, it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs of the sub continent so it is off topic.
 
Old 11-15-2012, 03:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I'm done discussing this, it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs of the sub continent so it is off topic.
You are correct that it is off topic. As for the rest of what you said, it seems to be material distributed by
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au
which is a group spewing hatred against Jews and misinformation about Judiasm.
Now I can be done with this topic in this thread as well.
 
  


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