LinuxQuestions.org

LinuxQuestions.org (/questions/)
-   General (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/)
-   -   How to raise a child between agnostic parent and believer relatives? (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/how-to-raise-a-child-between-agnostic-parent-and-believer-relatives-4175435186/)

Aquarius_Girl 11-01-2012 11:38 PM

How to raise a child between agnostic parent and believer relatives?
 
  • Few months back I turned agnostic.
  • Don't have children yet.
  • Other family members are believers, I am not.

My mother tells me to pray to God and ask him to increase my
salary/happiness/safety etc. I can deal with my mother.

My in-laws ask me to pray to the God before embarking on a journey.
I do as they wish (to make them happy (not a big deal for me)).

Now, when my relatives tell my future child to pray to God for
the above mentioned reasons, how should I explain to him(child)
that this God didn't protect the gas chamber victims so there is
no reason that you should expect him to help you to get good
grades in exams, etc?

I think the child will ask - then why is the grand mother praying
to God?
I don't have an answer to this.

My brother and his wife have taught their child (2 years old) that
if you do bad things God will punish you.
I want my child to not to do bad things because the bad things are
bad, not because God is going to punish.

I want that when he grows up (about 15 years of age) then he
should decide for himself whether he wants to follow religion or not
till then he should have a free mind. He should be dependent on
himself for his acts, not on God.

dugan 11-02-2012 12:17 AM

Tell your relatives to mind their own business.

EDIT: Anisha is responding to an earlier version of this post, which read: "Just use the phrase 'God helps those who help themselves'" I thought better of it. Just do what any westerner would do and tell your relatives to mind their own business.

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 12:22 AM

That's not true, IMO, and I don't want to lie to my child.
There will be several (simple) cases where this saying will/has fail(ed), and I won't
have any answers at that time.

Actually, these kind of saying lead to an indirect dependence on God.
I used to follow that, that's why I know.

I just want this God thing not to have any impact on my child till he is 15.
I wonder how do people deal with this in real life!

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4820179)
Tell your relatives to mind their own business.

Actually the problem is the "in-laws". It is not possible for me to tell them
to mind their own business. Cultural difference.

They perform Yagyas/Hawans in their home, and I just
don't know what to tell my child about what's happening there!

Quote:

why is the grand mother praying to God?
I don't even know what to do with the "fairy tales" thing.
Every comic book for children has these fairies, and witches.

I don't know if it is wise to first explain to a child that the
fairy did that, and then if he asks is it all true?? What to
reply - yes, it is, but god is different than fairy? OR no, this
story is to make you go to sleep!

dugan 11-02-2012 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820185)
Actually the problem is the "in-laws". It is not possible for me to tell them
to mind their own business. Cultural difference.

Oh yeah. In-laws. I missed that. So you're married. Shouldn't this discussion be held with your husband, instead of with us?

Quote:

They perform Yagyas/Hawans in their home, and I just don't know what to tell my child about what's happening there!
Well, I'm not going to answer that. I just read the Wikipedia article and I can't explain in my own words what's happening there either! ;)

Seriously, though, I would see nothing wrong with explaining the story behind the ritual, what your in-laws believe it does, and perhaps the history of why it's still performed.

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4820189)
Shouldn't this discussion be held with your husband, instead of with us?

He doesn't want his parents to get offended. He even told me to keep mum
about this topic in their presence.

Now the problem is that my father in law regularly keeps on telling me how
their Kuldevta reads mind, and can beat others (who don't respect his offerings) while being
invisible all the time.

I keep on nodding, and keep mum.
Now what about the child? He is definitely going to tell him all those stories
too. And I don't want my child to get "frightened" and live in fear!!

vharishankar 11-02-2012 02:42 AM

deleted.

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharishankar (Post 4820228)
Religion is not fear.

Care to read the following?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820193)
Now the problem is that my father in law regularly keeps on telling me how
their Kuldevta reads mind, and can beat others (who don't respect his offerings) while being
invisible all the time.

I keep on nodding, and keep mum.
Now what about the child? He is definitely going to tell him all those stories
too. And I don't want my child to get "frightened" and live in fear!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by vharishankar (Post 4820228)
From your posting it appears your main intention here appears to be to ridicule Indian traditions, customs and cultures in an International forum - not about God or belief in it.

Report button is on the bottom right corner of these posts.
Use that.

vharishankar 11-02-2012 02:48 AM

deleted.

dugan 11-02-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820193)
He doesn't want his parents to get offended. He even told me to keep mum about this topic in their presence.

But he's fine with his wife being offended. He has not told his parents to keep mum about this topic in his wife's presence.

The real problem is that a double standard is being applied.

sundialsvcs 11-02-2012 09:28 AM

Oh, I don't have any problem with this forum topic, personally. Let it run for a while, if it will. It's no more "odd," or offensive, than running a poll about whether you'd hook your brain up to a computer. :rolleyes:

"Belief in ≤god≥" is a deeply seated part of human nature, as is being agnostic about such things. Let a child decide for himself or herself, exactly as you did and exactly as your relatives did. Let them be exposed at the same time to both viewpoints, because when they're out there in the real-world on their own, they're going to encounter that, every day.

And their beliefs, or lack thereof, will be every bit as personal to them, as yours are to you, and your relatives' are to them.

Children might not have much worldly-experience yet, because of their youth, but they do think sophisticated thoughts, just as you do and did. They're going to find their own way. And, they're going to find their own way to relate, both to people like your relatives and to people like you(!). Religious topics might be something that they want to talk about a lot, that they want to quickly express their opinions about, or they might prefer to listen and not speak, or they might prefer to ignore, change-the-subject, even shut the subject down. Everyone should have that privilege. And, over the course of everyone's life, that's likely to change and to evolve.

vharishankar 11-02-2012 09:46 AM

deleted

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4820542)
But he's fine with his wife being offended. He has not told his parents to keep mum about this topic in his wife's presence. The real problem is that a double standard is being applied.

As I said before there is a huge cultural difference.
Talking to parents in such a way is NOT normal here.
(If serious) These kinds of talks with parents can easily bring cracks in
relations (specially when daughter in law is involved).
Anyways, as I said I need to talk to the "child only". :)

Knightron 11-02-2012 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820185)
They perform Yagyas/Hawans in their home, and I just
don't know what to tell my child about what's happening there!

Why would your child attend these events, if you (and your partner) don't intend on bringing them up under a religion? I'm not familiar with that event, and i'm not enthusiastic enough to read the whole page, (thanks for providing a link though); but if you have to attend, would simply telling your child 'it's a bonfire, and it's fun to sing around bonfires' work? And once they're a little older to make up there minds for them selves, (in my opinion, about thirteen if the conversation isn't forced by the intrusiveness of others) inform them what your inlaws believe and explain you don't, then why you don't, and then, that they have the choice to believe what they want but should not feel pressured to believe either of the two.
If this seems ignorant, please remember i didn't read the whole wiki article.

Quote:

I don't even know what to do with the "fairy tales" thing.
Every comic book for children has these fairies, and witches.
Something many people don't realize, (most likely because of Disneys dumbed down movies) is that fairy tales are not supposed to be a story for entertainment, but instead a 'interesting' tale to grab the attention of a child, with a eventual point, to teach the child a life lesson.
The interest comes from fictional characters such as talking pigs and wolves, fairies, trolls ect. They're usually metaphors. I think the child will usually just know they're not real, but if they ask, just explain to the child that the characters aren't real, but there are other bad things in the world, and that's why you never talk to strangers ect.


At this point, i would like to remind anyone, that i am only twenty three years old, have little knowledge on Hinduism, and don't have kids, or in laws.
This is a forum where everyone may contribute. While what i say is my personal opinion on what i'd do under that situation, it is an opinion based entirely on your details and i can not possibly have personal knowledge of the situation such as individuals personalities ect that may influence the scenario.
For this reason, what i say and for being on a forum, (especially in general) any information i give, and anyone elses as well for that matter, should be taken with a grain of salt.

TobiSGD 11-02-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820612)
Anyways, as I said I need to talk to the "child only". :)

The problem is: you can't.
Sooner or later your child will tell those relatives that what they say contradicts with what its mother said. Children are really good in spotting differences in what they are being told, but they are not good in knowing when it is better to not tell everyone.
So sooner or later you will inevitably have to work that out with your relatives and I think it is better if you keep control over the "when" and "how", instead of letting the child "decide".

Aquarius_Girl 11-02-2012 11:11 AM

vharishankar;

You have voiced your opinion about disliking this thread more than once.
You have reported this thread.

Now repeating repeatedly your dislike about this thread, here, is only going to make
me think of you as a `pest`.

Now, listen:
"I know" I haven't written anything offensive here, neither I have manipulated any
statements here. This is /General and I am free to post any non-Linux stuff I wish,
as long as I stay under the rules.

As they say, get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat!

BTW, I'll be very glad to be in your ignore list.

Also, IMO the topic of this particular thread is VERY important for today's generation
and specially in India where talking against religion, openly, is frowned upon.

sag47 11-02-2012 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820170)
  • Few months back I turned agnostic.
  • Don't have children yet.
  • Other family members are believers, I am not.

My mother tells me to pray to God and ask him to increase my
salary/happiness/safety etc. I can deal with my mother.

My in-laws ask me to pray to the God before embarking on a journey.
I do as they wish (to make them happy (not a big deal for me)).

Now, when my relatives tell my future child to pray to God for
the above mentioned reasons, how should I explain to him(child)
that this God didn't protect the gas chamber victims so there is
no reason that you should expect him to help you to get good
grades in exams, etc?

I think the child will ask - then why is the grand mother praying
to God?
I don't have an answer to this.

My brother and his wife have taught their child (2 years old) that
if you do bad things God will punish you.
I want my child to not to do bad things because the bad things are
bad, not because God is going to punish.

I want that when he grows up (about 15 years of age) then he
should decide for himself whether he wants to follow religion or not
till then he should have a free mind. He should be dependent on
himself for his acts, not on God.

A friend of mine, his dad, is Hindi and told me something I'll never forget about. I myself am not religious at all but I can resonate very well with what he said. He said (in a non-accurate quote):

Different people pray to different Gods and even sometimes to the same God without realising it. What you must understand about this is peace of the heart. It is the nature of people to desire comfort and happiness. Some people are comforted by praying to God. Others are comfortable with a self realisation that there is no God. Whatever the case may be if it makes that person happy then is it wrong? If praying to God at the end of the day and throughout brings happiness into your life then do that. If it doesn't and you find happiness in other ways such as hobbies then do that. The end goal is to bring happiness and peace to your life and just understand that different people achieve inner peace in different ways.

End quote. That changed my whole perspective on religion and by far one of the wisest things I have ever read or heard. I hope that helps you figure out your dilemma.

Your friend,
SAM

sag47 11-02-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharishankar (Post 4820232)
I've made a report to the effect. Please don't be offended but I think this forum should not be used to ventilate your personal life issues. There are other forums or blogs where they provide advise for such situations.

This forum is a community. As a community we talk about many things. Sometimes personal life issues need advice from an independent third party and there's nothing wrong with asking that. I'd say if she were to post this anywhere on the LQ forum the Non-*NIX General forums would be the place to do it.

vharishankar 11-02-2012 11:47 AM

deleted.

DavidMcCann 11-02-2012 01:34 PM

I knew you were having problems with belief, Anisha, but I'm sorry you've lost your faith. Personally, I'd say that the combination of philosophical arguments showing that a supreme being is likely and the experience of God(s) by millions of people is pretty convincing.

As for your potential children, are you not falling into intolerance here? If you isolate your child from religion, how can that give him a "free mind"? You are imposing your views as much as your parents would. Your child can be brought up as a believer or as an unbeliever, but they can't be brought up as a "nothing".

I agree that many people's religion is rather superstitious, including the views of your family, but that doesn't invalidate the concept. To quote from one of our ancient writers:

"The divine is without needs, and worship is paid for our benefit. The providence of the Gods reaches everywhere and only needs some congruity for its reception."

"It is impious to suppose that the divine is affected for good or ill by human beings. The truth simply is that when we are good we are joined to the Gods by our likeness ... and when we become evil ... our sins prevent the light of the Gods from shining upon us ... To say that God turns away from evil is like saying that the sun hides himself from the blind."

johnsfine 11-02-2012 01:50 PM

One of the most sought after and cherished human rights is the right to force others to obey your religion.

An accurate read of history indicates the Pilgrims settled Massachusetts pursuing the right to force their religion upon their neighbors. They placed that goal above all others (safety, material prosperity, etc.). The popular American myth that they fled the religious intolerance of England looking for religious freedom is contradicted by everything they did and everything they wrote.

In the USA, we tend to believe in the right of parents to try to force their religion upon their children. But we at least pretend it stops there. We don't give much support for people forcing their religion on their grandchildren (they had their chance with their own children and if they blew that chance, it is too late). The many who strongly believe in the government's role of forcing Christianity on the people, need to find confused and convoluted arguments to hide the basic flaw of believing in the words "freedom of religion" without believing in the actual freedom those words imply.

Regardless of what a society does or doesn't pretend, people will still want to force their religion on their neighbors and even more so want to force their religion on their grandchildren. So Anisha, I wish you good luck dealing with your husband's parents on that topic, but there is no advice that will tell you a clean solution.

In my own case, I don't believe in God and my wife does believe in God. It was the source of some stress in raising children, but not insurmountable. We agreed early on that she was free to teach them God exists and I was limited to "no comment" on the topic. The kids of course understood, without being explicitly told, that I do not believe in God. That was the source of such stress as we had on the topic. Once she saw the effect of "no comment", My wife wanted me to lie to our children and pretend to believe in God. I participated in the ceremonies (not very well or enthusiastically), but never indicated I believed in any of it. Our sons made up their own minds, which is four for four not believing in God.

Hungry ghost 11-02-2012 05:57 PM

Maybe you could try to show your future child both sides of the coin and let him/her know your view on religion, so he/she can have a broad point of view about religion and life in general.

In my case, my parents are atheists and the rest of my family are catholics, but most of people here don't have strong religious beliefs, so it wasn't an issue for me or my parents when I was a kid. My relatives accept our atheism and we accept their beliefs (and we rarely speak about religion since it's not a common conversation topic here, even among people who share the same religion and beliefs).

frankbell 11-02-2012 10:10 PM

@sag47: Excellent post.

Anisha: There is no easy answer to this. And my country sets no example, as religious struggles have invaded the political arena.

Here in the States, we have many "interfaith" couples. In some cases, "interfaith" may even mean agnostic and believer.

I think this is true: you cannot insulate children from exposure to religion and religious people. It will be all around them. Trying to do that will be both futile and exhausting.

I think the best option is, when children question you about it, to explain that there are many different beliefs in India and in the world. Different persons pray to different gods, but most persons are striving to find a way to live a good life (as sag47 said, to find peace). Perhaps adding something to the effect that you are unsure of which way is the correct way, but that living with integrity, kindness, and respect for others what every person of good will wants, and that's what you want in your house.

Teach them that it's okay for other persons to believe differently, so long as they try to be good persons and treat others with kindness and respect and integrity.

And be prepared for opposition from the in-laws. A mark of believers is that they are certain without evidence. That is what faith is--certainty without evidence (or "the evidence of things unseen" as the Christian St. Paul put it).

Your example will be more important and powerful than your words. If children in India are like children in America, they learn to stop listening to their parents along about puberty . . . .

jefro 11-02-2012 10:13 PM

Maybe you need to change your culture or forget the family. You need to raise your child as best you can. If your culture forbids you from raising your child then do your best to broaden your child's knowledge. They may one day be quite religious or have a strong believe. You wouldn't want to deny them that either.

I would not pray to get material goods. I might pray that others be helped or healed or such but never would I ask for my own other than for mental or spiritual guidance.

dugan 11-03-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefro (Post 4821174)
Maybe you need to change your culture or forget the family.

This. Women here expect their husbands to value them above their husband's parents when the needs of the two conflict. Getting married, here, is a sign of independence from parents.

jlinkels 11-03-2012 12:41 PM

There have been more people killed because of religion than anything else. So I suspect a worse relationship with your husband or the in-laws is just trivial and could happen by just thinking about this problem.

My wife is very Christian too. One of those happy churches with singing and clapping hands and "God is Love" and "Once you love Christ all your problems are solved". That kind.

Obviously our son (the one called Grep, regular visitors of this forum know him by now :) ) was heavily influenced by the bible terror from since he could talk. My comments were mostly neutral, a bit agnostic biased though. I never made a big deal out of it.

When he turned 7 or so he refused to go to church, Sunday school, readin the bible, etc. That is two years ago now. To me he is admitting he doesn't believe, but to his mom he is mostly neutral.

As it seems, when there are two different attitudes in the children's parents, he or she will hear both, and make a choice at some moment. Remember, you can't insist on a child choosing your side. Only on choosing the right side.

jlinkels

dugan 11-03-2012 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul (Post 4820680)
Also, IMO the topic of this particular thread is VERY important for today's generation and specially in India where talking against religion, openly, is frowned upon.

vharishankar has certainly proven this point.

k3lt01 11-03-2012 05:41 PM

Just my opinion but if you need to ask how to raise a child then there is something horribly wrong. Religion or no religion if the child is yours you should be able to raise it and nothing family says, unless of course it is a safetly/welfare issue, should deter you from raising your child how you see fit. Another thing that springs to mind is it is funny how people who have had the opportunity to decide for themselves if they believe or don't believe think that children should not be afforded that same choice. If your family are having a religious celebration at their place then so be it they are free to do so and you are free to stop your child from going to it. It will be your child so it is you who has to make the choices and it is you who has to stand by those choices not your family and not some people on some forum.

AnanthaP 11-03-2012 08:52 PM

Go with the tide anisha. Dont buck it.

Obviously dont tell your in laws or EVEN YOUR PARENTS. But think of moving out to a different place. Remember you cant choose your relatives and in India that includes inlaws. You can however choose your work spot and friends circle. If you all now live near your work spot, consider changing your job to a place far away and get your husband's support. What does he say? Is he also for being agnostic? (I think you mean casual towards religious ceremonies, mumbo jumbo etc).

Many Indian families conduct hawan etc. In itself it means nothing. Wherever you go, you will find some religion. Weekly church on Sunday or mosque on JUMAwar. But in your case it's your in laws who in India can be judge, jury and executioner. What if it's havan today and forced visit to temples tomorrow? Or worse if you have a girl and they blame you for not producing a male child? You have to ponder these and other issues that you have to face in the future.

There is an alternate value system that does not call for being overly (and overtly) religious. Its called having a secular life style.

All the best in your efforts to provide a sane and rational life for your child.

If you ever migrate to Chennai call me and we will have a cup of coffee and bat the breeze. Most south indians aren't religious nuts or orthodox.

OK

frankbell 11-03-2012 09:33 PM

Quote:

Just my opinion but if you need to ask how to raise a child then there is something horribly wrong.
I must say that this statement troubles me.

Anisha's question is not about raising a child.

It's about dealing with in-laws who are likely to disagree with how one is raising a child.

Advice columns in American newspapers (the only papers I know well) are full of questions about how to deal with in-laws who are demanding, unreasonable, domineering, meddling, and dictatorial. It is a common source of stress in families and apparently also a cross-cultural one.

To be fair, advice columns are also full of questions from in-laws who see their married children throwing away their lives in bad matches, addiction, adultery, and so on and so on.

k3lt01 11-03-2012 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell (Post 4821699)
I must say that this statement troubles me.

Anisha's question is not about raising a child.

It is actually.

"How to raise a child between agnostic parent and believer relatives?" is the title of this thread. The very basic premise of this topic is the parents ability to raise the child as they see fit. It is easy to pick at either side of the equation just as it is easy to replace both words with drunk and tea totaller. The real issue is not about being religious or agnostic instead the real issue is about the parents ability to raise the child as s/he sees fit without outside interference. No doubt the child will eventually choose to make up their own mind, just as the adults in the childs life had done before them, so it is up to the parent to decide what the child will be exposed to and the parent then has to stand by those choices.

frankbell 11-04-2012 07:55 PM

Not to quibble, but to quibble.

Semantics to the contrary notwithstanding, OP seems quite clear on how she wants to raise the child.

The issue is dealing with meddlin' in-laws.

I've been lucky. My in-laws were never meddlin', but I know plenty of folks whose parents or in-laws tried to run (spelled r-u-i-n) their married lives and families, and it seldom turned out well if they failed to deal with it effectively.

I would say that OP is wise to anticipate problems so as to try to avoid them.

pixellany 11-05-2012 04:48 AM

Interesting and difficult problem---in any culture. I would not want to be trying "western wisdom" in an "eastern" or "far-eastern" culture. This said, I **would** think that the parents, working together, need to decide how the child will be raised. Once that's done, then determine how to advise relatives of those decisions.

sundialsvcs 11-05-2012 08:09 AM

... and, "gods don't need people to believe in them." People generally do need to believe in gods. At some point in your life and probably at multiple points, you (and your child, and the parents) will confront these things which lie "beyond ourselves."

I think that if you present, "this is 'right' and that is 'not right,'" you're just setting the stage for a thoroughly mixed-up teenager. Because there are things that are bigger than us, no matter how we describe them. I was just the other day reading in the Book of Judith, which you can find in any good bookstore as part of the "Apocrypha" writings. I think that there's one exceptionally sobering line that Judith, the heroine, says:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith 8:14 (NRSV):
"You cannot plumb the depths of the human heart or understand the workings of the human mind; how do you expect to search out God who made all these things, and find out his mind or comprehend his thought?"

(P.S.: It's a really great story, and Judith is a very savvy woman who is given a lot of really insightful soliloquies, as for that matter is the anti-hero, Holofernes. If you haven't read The Apocrypha in a good translation, you're missing some great stuff along with the usual drivel.)

Anywhere and everywhere that you see humanity, you see these beliefs in some form. These are obviously very human characteristics that I think ought to be treated with kid gloves. Throughout all of human history, you see men and women and children wrestling with the same things. Therefore, I think that you might not wish to impose a sense of judgment upon anyone else's point-of-view, especially those of someone whom you do, at this period of time, have substantial influence upon. "This is what I believe. This is what they believe. You will in due time choose what you believe, and during the course of your life your beliefs might change and so might mine."

foodown 11-05-2012 04:57 PM

Children are remarkably capable of sifting through things like this on their own.

The important thing is to be honest with your children about what you believe as well as the fact that other people believe different things, and that any or all of you could be wrong.

If you impress upon he or she that they are free to decide for themselves what to believe or not and that they can always change their mind later on, that will be sufficient.

saivnoba 11-07-2012 12:55 AM

Anisha, why are you so worried about raising your *future* child in an 'agnostic' environment? Is not that another side of thrusting our views on children?

If you are married you must be atleast around 25yrs. You say you turned agnostic few months back, inspite of being raised in a traditional family. So people can change, at any time, right?

What was your inspiration/influence? Books, speeches, movies, friend-circle? Provide the same to the child. They will discover things for themselves. Definitely there will be friction at some point. But that's how things will be.

I'm in the same boat. I'm an agnostic but my relatives, esp., in-laws are all religious. I have a little angel and I want her to be independent. But you know what? I'm not worried like you. I know she will find her way. Have faith in your *future* child. :-)

H_TeXMeX_H 11-07-2012 12:57 PM

The only thing you should worry about is religious fanatics shoving "ideas" down a child's throat ... usually done at a place of "worship" whatever their name may be.

You say you are agnostic, which according to its definition means

Quote:

a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic?s=t

I recommend sticking to this if you believe it. I would say it is more of an intermediate state in which you question things. This is a good thing, and the same should be encouraged of your children. Ask them what they think, and encourage them to think. Don't tell them that there is a truth and that you know it, because it might be false.

Truth can always be derived logically.

theKbStockpiler 11-11-2012 07:04 PM

Approach it like a study and take it as a grain of salt.
 
Always have conversations about religion as academic study. Christianity always hits me like it never got out of the rough-raft stage. Example; where is the technology of heaven? If the Jews are still waiting for Jesus, does this mean that Jesus was not all that impressive? I don't take things from people without giving something back to fill the void but Religions are abstracted by their creators for a reason. Beliefs anchor other beliefs so this should be why a believer believes what they do. If you want to go to heaven ,rearrange all the other dots of life to come to that conclusion and make those things that do exist imaginary. ;)

m.a.l.'s pa 11-11-2012 08:40 PM

I'm not a "believer." My son's mom (my ex-wife) is.

I didn't try to keep him from believing anything. He went to his mom's place of worship with her while he was growing up. I just tried to live right and be a good example and let him make up his own mind about that stuff. I tried to talk about things with him as much as possible, explain (as best I could) what other people believe. I tried not to influence his thinking (not sure how successful I was at that), but to encourage him to use his own head.

He's in college now, and he isn't a "believer," either. But if he changes his mind, that's up to him. As for the relatives, it's none of their dang business.

k3lt01 11-12-2012 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theKbStockpiler (Post 4827295)
If the Jews are still waiting for Jesus, does this mean that Jesus was not all that impressive?

If you read up on Judaism you would know that Jews expect the "messiah" to rebuild the temple in 3 days. Jesus said his body was the temple but Jews expect the temple (i.e. an actual physical building) to be rebuilt on Temple Mount in a time span of 3 days.

Laxman_prodigy 11-15-2012 07:44 AM

Hi Anisha.

I think leave it to the child. A child knows nothing about any way to understand God and stuff related to it. Just tell him/her what they are doing. That is, the exact way, "havans/etc/" and what it is for. Since it will stuck in his/her mind and IF he is inquisitive enough he will soon find out. Because nobody with curiosity has been left unanswered for his quest even amidst the extremists. We find people who become atheists because of who? Themselves! They listen to their parents in their childhood, grow, think again, listen, think again, find discrepancies, listen, feels crappy, listen, and give it up by HIS/HER own convincing not because of even parents. I guess, tell her/him the way things are going. If he/she is a smart ass, soon he will have a way of his/her dealing with such stuff.

P.S. Just what I thought. I can see no other way.

Laxman_prodigy 11-15-2012 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saivnoba (Post 4823885)
Anisha, why are you so worried about raising your *future* child in an 'agnostic' environment? Is not that another side of thrusting our views on children?

If you are married you must be atleast around 25yrs. You say you turned agnostic few months back, inspite of being raised in a traditional family. So people can change, at any time, right?

What was your inspiration/influence? Books, speeches, movies, friend-circle? Provide the same to the child. They will discover things for themselves. Definitely there will be friction at some point. But that's how things will be.

I'm in the same boat. I'm an agnostic but my relatives, esp., in-laws are all religious. I have a little angel and I want her to be independent. But you know what? I'm not worried like you. I know she will find her way. Have faith in your *future* child. :-)


Oops, already beaten. THIS.

johnsfine 11-15-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4827394)
If you read up on Judaism you would know that Jews expect the "messiah" to rebuild the temple in 3 days.

There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

More obviously, your use of that idea as the reason Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, is unsound because at the time that Jesus was supposedly there the temple had not yet been destroyed.

k3lt01 11-15-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsfine (Post 4830027)
There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

More obviously, your use of that idea as the reason Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, is unsound because at the time that Jesus was supposedly there the temple had not yet been destroyed.

The first temple was detroyed in 586 BC, the second which started under the orders of Cyrus the Great, was halted because of conflict with the remnants who actually stayed behind during the captivity and started again under Darius many years later. It also had an alter to Zeus built in it during the Sellucid reign. Herod the Great was the one who actually had most of the building work done to it (in the 1st century AD), infact he pretty well totally rebuilt it but his purpose was to make sure his name was remembered throughout history. While it was a temple built on Temple Mount it was not the temple the Hebrew people wanted instead they wanted Solomon's temple. So you may think I am wrong simply because of a date but you need to know a bit more about their history and culture than just dates to make such a judgement call.

I'm done discussing this, it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs of the sub continent so it is off topic.

johnsfine 11-15-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4830213)
I'm done discussing this, it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs of the sub continent so it is off topic.

You are correct that it is off topic. As for the rest of what you said, it seems to be material distributed by
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au
which is a group spewing hatred against Jews and misinformation about Judiasm.
Now I can be done with this topic in this thread as well.

k3lt01 11-15-2012 03:32 PM

@Johnsfine.
1. I have never heard of that group.
2. I have been in trouble on this forum only a few weeks ago for actually impressing on someone the need to not spread anti-semitism.
3. I find what you just said extremely offensive.

Desdd57 12-21-2012 07:57 AM

Belief
 
Anisha

I/m hoping you haven't abandoned this thread, for IMO your input makes sense and the subject is a real real problem for many people. It's not a big problem for me for I found faith when I was fathering children and simply brought them up to understand God is real, but sometimes allows suffering for the development of character.

Anyway be that as it may, my children grew up with little conflict in their mind as to what was fable and what was truth, and had little difficulty in separating pagan myths from truth also. When they asked the quations I (without disrespecting my parents or in laws) just told them the truth. Eg "this is a fairy story and was invented and written by a human being for the purpose of entertaining other human beings - especially children" They are all grown up now, and at ages between 15 to 18 they made their own decision, logically, for faith in God, and belief of His truths (ie His promises and prophesies had been proven to them and after many questions had been addressed they became believers. They are now in their forties and their children are headed in the same direction.

Perhaps what you are after is only an ideal that despite our fumbling only does work for a few - perhaps it only works for the believers in the one true God, for there is no conflict then.

I hope your children grow up with a strong love for their parents and their peers. Remember this - you have to demonstrate love and respect for your parents and in laws if you are to have any hope of receiving the same from your children. I can guarantee that they will, in part at least, follow your example - so set them a good one. :)

Desdd57 12-21-2012 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsfine (Post 4830027)
There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

rebuild the temple in three days came from the mouth of Christ (John 2:19) but the text is clear in mentioning that he spoke of the temple of his body. The Jews do not believe this and in fact he was misquoted (the text in John was misquoted) by some false witnesses at his trial - hope that that helps clear it up :)

Desdd57 12-22-2012 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsfine (Post 4830027)
There are a lot of different sects of Judaism that believe a lot of different things. So I wouldn't be surprised if some Jews believe that. But I had never heard of it before and asked some more knowledgeable Jews who also had never heard of that (3 days).

rebuild the temple in three days came from the mouth of Christ (John 2:19) but the text is clear in mentioning that he spoke of the temple of his body. The Jews do not believe this and in fact he was misquoted (the text in John was misquoted) by some false witnesses at his trial - hope that that helps clear it up :)

Aquarius_Girl 10-08-2020 06:47 AM

So, the girl is now 7 years old and as I hoped she has
turned to be an agnostic.

Whenever the topic of God used to come up I always
replied and still do: "I don't know. No one has seen
God so no one knows whether he really exists or not.
Some people believe that he exists and some don't."

For stone and photo worshipping I told her that some
people believe this stone idol/photo is God but no one
knows for sure.

This has kept her satisfied.

Now the another problem is she has started questioning
other people about their prayers and beliefs. This can
easily result into fights. I have told her not to question
people about God.

All is going well currently w.r.t raising the child in an
agnostic way.



Thank you for all the effort.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 PM.