How do I do this in Windows?

suicidaleggroll · 06-21-2015, 07:20 PM

I know this is a Windows question on a Linux forum, but I hoped some people here might have some experience in this realm and would prevent me from having to sign up on a Windows forum to ask it.

I run the IT at my place of work. Small company, all networking and "real" computing is done on Linux, all programmers/developers use Linux on their workstations, but the CEO and admin people use Windows because their software needs it.

The admins have a new requirement. They want 2-4 people to be able to use QuickBooks simultaneously with a common database, from in or out of the office. Sounds easy.

As I see it there are basically two options:
1) Every admin machine has a local copy of QB and accesses a common database through a Windows share with VPN when remote.
2) QB is installed on one machine in the office, and all admins rdesktop into it whether they're local or remote.

We tried a variant of #1 before, and it was a PITA. Namely, Windows would disconnect the share for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON in the middle of working, and QB does NOT respond well to the database disappearing with no warning while running (recursive errors, data loss, etc.).

For that reason, I'm leaning toward #2, the question is how do you do it with Windows? QB seems straight forward, install a version that supports simultaneous usage with multiple licenses and you're done, it's Windows that's the problem.

I plan on installing this system, whatever it ends up being, as a VM on one of the Linux servers.

Desktop versions of Windows only support 1 simultaneous user, be it local or remote, so that's out. Server versions of Windows are a MESS of licensing restrictions that seems impossible to navigate. From what I can gather, I need a Windows Server, but which version? I think 2008 wasn't a problem here, but it's 7 years old now. I'd prefer to go with 2012 for support, but that's where the complication comes in.

From here on out everything I say is just what I understand from research, I could be wrong on any/all accounts, please correct me if/when I am.

Windows Server 2012 Foundation can only be installed OEM on new hardware, I don't think it works as a VM, so that's out. 2012 Essentials won't allow more than 2 RDP connections at a time, and they both have to be admin, so that's out too. I think I need 2012 Standard. It supports 2 admin RDP connections, plus you need a CAL for each user that wants to connect via RDS (remote desktop services), at ~$30/ea it's not bad. However, from what I'm reading you also need a Windows Domain Controller, and the DC and the RDS server cannot be on the same machine. This means you need to have a minimum of TWO systems, one for the DC, one for the RDS, which would be the one that runs QB as well. The 2012 Standard license allows you to run one host and two Hyper-V VMs as part of the same license, so you could run the DC as a VM, and the host as the RDS server with QB, however I don't even know if it's possible to run Linux as a host, with Windows Server 2012 running in a VirtualBox VM, with Windows Server 2012 running in a Hyper-V VM inside that VM. Plus I keep reading about RDG (remote desktop gateway) that facilitates connections to RDS through https, and that might need to be on yet another system? But maybe not? Maybe if it's just a workgroup and not a domain controller you don't need separate systems? What does any of this mean?

Plus I'd prefer if there was MS Office on this system, yet apparently desktop versions of Office (including 365) won't install on Windows Server, and the version that will install costs nearly $400 PER USER.

All I want to do is let 5 people connect to a computer and run a program. This would take 15 minutes on Linux and cost $0. Anybody who says Linux is too complicated has clearly NEVER had to deal with Windows enterprise licensing.

frankbell · 06-21-2015, 08:04 PM

This is just a shot in the dark, as I never have and hopefully never will have to deal with this

, but could they VPN to the Windows machine? Then they would be running Quickbooks in its native environment, but each in his own connection.

This Spiceworks thread features a lively discussion of a problem that sounds very similar to yours.

AnanthaP · 06-22-2015, 04:07 AM

Irrespective of the platform I would first check whether the QB version your company has supports multi user (eg in number generation, inserts, updates etc).

See:
http://support.quickbooks.intuit.com...uestNoNav=true

PS : I am in India where QB is just entering the market (driven by slowing sales in their home market perhaps) and I have no experience with it. In India it is being targetted at accounting firms for them to do their customers' accounts.

OK

sundialsvcs · 06-22-2015, 09:50 AM

I would make several very-frank comments here:

(1) QuickBooks is company accounting. There is enormous business risk associated with anything that might compromise either the security or the integrity of such databases. If you're really going to do this, then you should configure Windows machines (and file servers) in exactly the manner that QB proscribes.

(2) Serious multi-user accounting (or similar ...) activities, demand the use of a properly-secured SQL database, for the business-risk reasons aforesaid. And, client software that is specifically designed to work with such a data-store. Set up the proper software, in exactly the manner set forth by the vendor of that software, and rigorously practice "best practices" regarding backups and so-forth. There is tremendous business risk associated with accounting data.

To me, this is no place for Linux. (Except, say, as the host of the SQL database, i-f the accounting package vendor expressly supports it.) No place for experimentation of any kind. "Dollars and Cents, Debit and Credit," are the very lifeblood of any business, fraught with forbidding risks and subject to harsh legal liabilities.

(Of course, I do not mean to imply that Linux cannot run accounting software that is made for it. Of course this is not the case.)

suicidaleggroll · 06-22-2015, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnanthaP

Irrespective of the platform I would first check whether the QB version your company has supports multi user (eg in number generation, inserts, updates etc).

A new version of QB will be purchased to allow multi-user access.

---------- Post added 06-22-15 at 09:14 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

I would make several very-frank comments here:

(1) QuickBooks is company accounting. There is enormous business risk associated with anything that might compromise either the security or the integrity of such databases. If you're really going to do this, then you should configure Windows machines (and file servers) in exactly the manner that QB proscribes.

(2) Serious multi-user accounting (or similar ...) activities, demand the use of a properly-secured SQL database, for the business-risk reasons aforesaid. And, client software that is specifically designed to work with such a data-store. Set up the proper software, in exactly the manner set forth by the vendor of that software, and rigorously practice "best practices" regarding backups and so-forth. There is tremendous business risk associated with accounting data.

To me, this is no place for Linux. (Except, say, as the host of the SQL database, i-f the accounting package vendor expressly supports it.) No place for experimentation of any kind. "Dollars and Cents, Debit and Credit," are the very lifeblood of any business, fraught with forbidding risks and subject to harsh legal liabilities.

(Of course, I do not mean to imply that Linux cannot run accounting software that is made for it. Of course this is not the case.)

Yes of course it's going to be Windows, the topic of this thread is even "How do I do this in Windows". I never mentioned using Linux for any of it, except perhaps to host the Windows VM. That's why I made the thread, to find out how to do it in Windows, given the ridiculously complicated nature of Windows enterprise licensing.

QB can help on the QB front, they do not tell you how to set up the Windows system that will run it, or what kind of licensing agreement you have to have with Microsoft to allow RDS usage.

suicidaleggroll · 06-22-2015, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbell

This is just a shot in the dark, as I never have and hopefully never will have to deal with this

, but could they VPN to the Windows machine? Then they would be running Quickbooks in its native environment, but each in his own connection.

This Spiceworks thread features a lively discussion of a problem that sounds very similar to yours.

I'm planning to set up VPN for access outside the LAN.

That thread is very similar, thanks for posting it. It looks like they're going over some of the same issues - hosting the database in a centralized location with individual copies of QB installed on each machine vs a centralized QB installation that everybody remotes into.

It looks like most of them have come to the same conclusion as I did, separating QB from the database file is a PITA, QB does not respond well to it. The best option then would be to have it all centralized on one machine and have people rdesktop into it. Which brings me back to the OP - how do you do this with Windows Server 20xx? How many machines are required, do you need a domain controller or remote desktop gateway? What licenses do you need to allow 5 users to rdesktop into one system?

I know it sounds like an easy question, but just see here:
https://social.technet.microsoft.com...sktop-services

Quote:

Why would anyone want Essentials or Foundation then? Oh boy, you get 25 or 15 cal's, but look what you give up.
NO RDP, NO HYPER-V with either product. If you want to use those CAL's, you have to format your server, because
they only come OEM. Cal's are $27 each at Dell. IMHO, both products are scams. You purchase Foundation or Essentials because you think its a deal and are hypnotized by all the 0365 and "The Drive", {formerly known as skydrive, Microsoft stole the name and has to give it back} it is supposed to tie into. Only to find out you have to purchase 2012 Standard anyhow so you can have your RDP server. So the "deal" is Microsoft gets to sell you two licenses. A worthless Essentials or Foundation License, and a genuine copy of Server 2012 Standard. Why we are at it, why would any one want 2012 anyhow? They stripped the 5 CALS that always came with the server product, so its $136 more than 2008R2.
Here are the gotcha's with 2012... BEWARE:
1.) You cannot install RDP services or gateway on a 2012 Domain Controller
2.) You cannot install Exchange on a 2012 Domain Controller
3.) You cannot install RDP on the same server with Exchange
4.) Your new $700 server Download (there are no CDs anymore) does not come with any CAL's. They cost extra.
So, with 2012 you need THREE servers or server instances. (can we say needless complexity of setting up three VM's and a hyperV host?)
When all these roles and services would install and play in perfect harmony on a single 2008R2 computer. Thats right, one box.

and

Quote:

I cannot express in words the frustration I had to go through in setting up the 3 instances of Server 2012 Standard. And that for a company that has 12 users, and only 4 wants to be able to log in remotely to do their work. My biggest problem with MS is the fact that no-where, and I mean NO-WHERE is it properly documented what the exact requirements are to set up a very basic Remote Access Server. I am still battling with the 3 instances and I followed all the online forums available.

and

Quote:

Purchase a Server 2012 Standard license (OEM, Volume Licensing or FPP) and use it to create a Hyper-V host. Then, use one of your 2 virtual licenses to stand up a Server 2012 Essentials VM. Use your second virtual license to create another Server 2012 Standard with the RDS role enabled.
When the system is configured, the RDS server should be accessible through the Essentials dashboard/front end via Remote Web Access, just like a desktop PC would be. You will have to purchase RDS CALs to access the RDS server (I still want to call it a terminal server), but you should also be able to host Remote App and all of the other goodies that come with RDS.
(Another thread I saw mentioned that you may have to purchase separate user CALs for the second server, but I don't think that is the case.)
As an added twist, with Server 2012 R2, MS changed the licensing with Essentials. You are now allowed to create a physical Hyper-V host on which to locate a virtualized Essentials server. In my previous scenario, I don't see where this would be a benefit, but if you just want the benefit of virtualization, now you will have it for no extra cost with the 2012 R2 version.

and

Quote:

I LITERALLY spent months trying to get it to work without having to purchase the standard version of Server 2012. Even though Microsoft claims that Essentials work with RDS they don't specify that you need a second server (DC) to manage it all. I eventually bought the Standard version, and even with that, you need at least one VM together with the actual machine in order to setup a proper RDS environment.

maples · 06-22-2015, 11:53 AM

This is a potshot in the dark, and I've never tried anything like this so it may not even be possible, but would you be able to get some version of Windows Server that supports multiple logins and install a VNC server on it?

Again, I hardly know what I'm talking about, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case anyone else has any thoughts.

suicidaleggroll · 06-22-2015, 05:36 PM

So I downloaded and installed Windows Server 2012 R2 in a VirtualBox VM and have been playing with that. Kudos to Microsoft for giving their free evaluation version of the OS a 6 month expiration! Pretty impressive.

Anyway, I was able to set up the system in a workgroup instead of a domain (no domain controller), and added the RDS role which went smoothly. It looks like the trial version of the OS includes an unlimited per-device CAL RDS license, so I went ahead and added 3 users to the system and all four of us are rdesktop'd into it right now without issue (I say "us", but it's really just me rdesktop'd into it four times as four different users). It's not complaining, and everything is working well. From what I can tell with the real OS I would just need to add some per-user CALs for these users and it should work just the same. If so, that would be great.

sundialsvcs · 06-22-2015, 07:45 PM

I apologize, of course, for mis-reading your original comment.

I wouldn't be doing "RDS anything." I'd have a copy of QB on each accountant's machine, all tied to an SQL Server in which the actual accounting data is stored. And, I'd cheerfully pay the license fees to QB and/or Microsoft to do such a stable arrangement.

suicidaleggroll · 06-22-2015, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

I wouldn't be doing "RDS anything." I'd have a copy of QB on each accountant's machine, all tied to an SQL Server in which the actual accounting data is stored. And, I'd cheerfully pay the license fees to QB and/or Microsoft to do such a stable arrangement.

They work on laptops and do a significant portion of their work off-site. That means either the QB software needs to be installed on the laptop with the database mounted through a VPN or similar (I won't do this due to the way QB implements their database interface, see my earlier comments and the comments in the thread linked by frankbell for explanations why - in short the QB database interface is crap and doesn't work well unless it's on a low-latency high bandwidth connection), or the software needs to be installed on a machine on the LAN that they RD into. Since their machines are laptops, this means I either need to set up a separate VM on the LAN for each user that they can RD into which then uses the shared database, or I simply install QB on one machine that they can all RD into. Either way, RD is really the only option.

It's not SQL BTW, it's simply a file that QB needs access to. Either the file needs to be local to the machine or mounted through a Windows share. Since password-protected Windows shares like to randomly disconnect (at least that was my previous experience), which then causes QB to freak out and throw errors out the wazoo, I'd rather avoid that option.

AnanthaP · 06-25-2015, 11:59 PM

Quote:

You may place a copy of your software data files on a network for access by licensed users but you are not permitted to network QuickBooks software.

So no need to RDS anything for the set of QB programmes.

They work on laptops and do a significant portion of their work off-site. (but presumably needing access to the common database), I would straight away go in for the QB enterprise version and load the QB data base on a server since that alone might have a tested version for both onSITE (presumably LAN with workgroups) and offSITE through VPN ..

OK