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Old 01-08-2013, 03:05 PM   #31
unSpawn
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Sure you may explain your post as your stance on labor displacement, but can you see the way you said things initially has completely different connotations?
 
Old 01-08-2013, 07:55 PM   #32
rob.rice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
Sure you may explain your post as your stance on labor displacement, but can you see the way you said things initially has completely different connotations?
sorry I can't in light of the facts in this matter
what are the completely different connotations?
was it something about them coming from India ? it's a fact almost all of the high skilled workers being imported are in fact coming from India

YES I can see how some people would be highly offended by having there world view questioned by exposing the fact this is going on and would want me silenced common tactic of those with out facts to base there views on

being offended at me for for speaking out ageist this is shooting the messenger

it's not just that US workers are being displaced to drive down wages
these imported workers are never told about the coast of living here in the US
to them $10,000 a year is more money than they are accustom to thinking about
nobody ever tells them they will be working for dishwasher's wages to program computers
to top it all off they pay a years wages to get here so there deep in debt
before they find out how low there wages will be

the imported workers are being mistreated by the employers these people have
NO legal protection even in cases rape or assault and battery go to the police
get fired and put on the next boat back no victim in court no case
the lack of legal protection and ultra low wages is why I called the imported workers slaves

truth is there are NO jobs US workers are unwilling to do
how ever there are wages US workers are unwilling to work for

the guest worker program is being gamed to lower US worker's wages and to create slaves

Last edited by rob.rice; 01-08-2013 at 08:13 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #33
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice View Post
what are the completely different connotations?
was it something about them coming from India ?
I was hoping you'd see that calling people (regardless what country they're from) "slaves" could be construed as derogatory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice View Post
the lack of legal protection and ultra low wages is why I called the imported workers slaves
Well, if you feel that strong about this issue... you might have called them "guest workers". I mean, isn't that more respectful? Especially if you really care about what they have to endure?
 
Old 01-08-2013, 09:05 PM   #34
sundialsvcs
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Well, I wish that I could ignore the fact that I have personally seen seventeen young Indian men walk out of a nearby apartment. They're nice, friendly folks, but I cannot help but feel that they are being taken advantage of. And I know that they don't have all of their "documentation." They've been told, by whoever "took care of" bringing them here, basically that "it's all been taken care of," i.e. "don't ask too many questions and keep your heads down low." These are, like I said, really nice folks, but there is always that "hunted" look about them. Something about the situation, in other words, is very plainly "not quite right."

And that really, really, bothers me ... because I have come to know these people as what they are: human beings. Bright, young, resourceful folks who nonetheless are on the wrong side of US Immigration policy (either outright, or well within the "shadows"), and who are kept there deliberately. I simply can't reconcile myself to watching what I see.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-08-2013 at 09:11 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2013, 09:10 PM   #35
rob.rice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
I was hoping you'd see that calling people (regardless what country they're from) "slaves" could be construed as derogatory.



Well, if you feel that strong about this issue... you might have called them "guest workers". I mean, isn't that more respectful? Especially if you really care about what they have to endure?
calling them a "guest workers" hides the fact that they are victims

to me calling some one a slave is calling them a victim
it is derogatory towards the person or organization keeping them enslaved in this case it's the employer
no body has ever willing and knowingly became a slave
I'm fighting the white slave trade over ownership of my self
the slave trade broke the chains on me by tiring to force
homosexuality on me I became accustom to living with out love
I do have a freedom that nobody in the trade has I can get away with publicly talking about the trade

Last edited by rob.rice; 01-08-2013 at 10:09 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2013, 09:32 PM   #36
unSpawn
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OK. By explaining your previous post, thanks for taking the time, your intentions should now be clear to anyone who may have thought it offensive initially. So I'm done here. Now let's get this thread back on topic.
 
Old 01-09-2013, 05:17 AM   #37
AnanthaP
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Hi rob,

Quote:
I'm fighting the white slave trade over ownership of my self
the slave trade broke the chains on me by tiring to force
homosexuality on me I became accustom to living with out love
I do have a freedom that nobody in the trade has I can get away with publicly talking about the trade
Going more and more off topic? How did homosexuality come into it? Like James Thurber's fictional character (Mitty) might have done, you seem to be building on a series of imagined directions that this thread is taking ...

One more thing (about 17 people coming out of an apartment). It happens in India too. In fact it happened to one of my friends. He rented his apartment to three students and one day when he went to see his flat, he found about 15 people residing there. Since they were students from another state (speaking a different language), in a sense they were also immigrants. The hunted look comes from not knowing how things operate.

Now back to topic.

Hi shivaa (from Bern?). What happened in this interview?

OK

Last edited by AnanthaP; 01-09-2013 at 05:19 AM.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #38
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@rob.rice: You're frustrated! People from other countries are there because of their skills and solid hard work, not because they're greedy or slaves. What US companies are doing, by importing people to do their work, is called business. And if you tag Indians as slave just because they work for those US companies, then what you're?? Ain't you working for a US (or even any other) company, and not a slave as well??

You're just re-directing the whole good conversation in a wrong direction. If you really have any problem with any country specific people, then better raise your voice in front of those who're responsible. There's no meaning of writing here.

@AnanthaP: Got in, but I denied because of their term & conditions... Let's wait for an another one

Last edited by shivaa; 01-10-2013 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Typo
 
Old 01-10-2013, 02:12 PM   #39
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaa View Post
@AnanthaP: Got in, but I denied because of their term & conditions... Let's wait for an another one
I think post #27 in this thread sums it up nicely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
I think that you should soberly read the entirety of this thread and consider why, given an ever-growing stable of "Linux systems administrators" to choose from, you might find yourself being passed-over. It's not the pony-tail. I very cautiously suggest that it just might be, well, attitude.
...and add to that when you've said before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaa
  • Does grooming really matters? Do they prefer well groomed person? To be honest, I do not believe in this philosophy, as there's no relation between your looks/dressup and your technical skills. Ultimately you'll be there to drive there IT infra smoothly, not for any show-off... But why they do not understand it.
  • I wear or looks whatever I feel comfortable, not just for sake of impressing the interviewer
  • A diplomatic answer (or just a game of words) may be helpful to keep your chances alive.
  • He was not just wanted a straight forward answer.
...it kind of looks like an attitude issue, based on this. You post things like "they do not understand it", and "not just wanted a straight forward answer". You say you wear what you want to interviews, too, and try to play a 'game of words' when you don't know something, because 'they' don't want a good answer? Now you turned down a job (and with your 'dream company'??) because of their terms and conditions? Did you ask them about things that bothered you? See if they could change it? Ask for clarification? Do you not see a pattern emerging in the things you've posted? You have a "me versus THEM" mindset, and apparently think that 'they' are stupid (with things like "why they do not understand", and "He was not just wanted a straight forward answer").

If they made you a job offer (after interviewing you several times, right?), and you turned them down, you will probably NEVER get another call from them again. And believe me...human resources folks DO talk to each other, so don't be surprised if this turns up at a later interview at another company.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 02:42 PM   #40
shivaa
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@TB0ne: I Agree. I will definitely try to improve it.

Well, this one was not with my dream company. Though I had cleared two technical rounds and everything was going smoothly, but the deal messed up with HR in last round. I was not finding myself comfortable with their policies and what they offered.
 
Old 01-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #41
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Wear a suit and tie. Even if they're not expecting you to do so, you're safe in case they do. I don't think anyone has ever not been offered a job because they wore a suit. Wearing a suit for a job interview is an old, time-honored practice. If nothing else, it shows that you have some class.

Cutting your hair was a good idea. I think tying it up would have sufficed, but long, unrestrained hair on a man will subconsciously plant ideas into the minds of interviewers that you don't want.

Don't play "word games," ever. Interviewers see right through that, even if you don't think that they do. Answer questions honestly and say "I don't know," or "I'd have to look that up." Trying to "game" their way through an answer makes a candidate appear weak and desperate.

It does sound like you have an attitude problem. When I'm interviewing someone, I already have an idea of their skill set from their resume. The interview is about 90% to gauge what kind of person they are and what kind of worker they would be, and about 10% to confirm or clarify what their skills are. If a candidate comes across as arrogant, smug, or otherwise undesirable in an interview, I will not hire them. I'd rather have someone requiring more training or with less aptitude whom I can trust and work with than somebody who is a genius with a bad attitude.

If some of this seems unfair to you, then you may be right about that, but it doesn't matter. That's just how it is. Even if an interviewer feels the same way about some unfair nuance of how job interviews go, they won't see your non-compliance with convention as a strength. Instead, they'll see it as a lack of understanding on your part of how business works and a disqualifying weakness.

Last edited by foodown; 01-11-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Errant pronoun -> your to their
 
Old 01-21-2013, 02:35 AM   #42
chrism01
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The Golden Rule
Quote:
Those who have the gold (money), make the rules!
Its not necessarily nice or fair (unless you're one of them of course ), but that's the way it is...
 
Old 01-21-2013, 09:24 AM   #43
sundialsvcs
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There are probably two main issues at work here ...

The first comes from never having seen the hiring equation from the hiring side. Hiring someone is always a bit of a crap-shoot, and when it turns out well it's great ... but when the person turns out to be, well an 455H073 L3WZ3R ... the trouble is how to get rid of him or her without "offending" HR. You basically can't do it. Therefore, when hiring you pay a lot of attention "to your gut." How the person looks at you, how they look, how they hold themselves, and many other purely-human factors. Part of the final decision literally comes down to how you feel about this person.

--- (the lighting on stage subtly turns more dark and ominous ... the spot tightens on the speaker's face as he lowers his voice) ---

The second, and this is my opinion, is a failure to consider that the market for skilled-worker programmers is finally beginning to irreversibly contract from the dot-bomb boom levels of fifteen or so years ago. This, unfortunately, also being the time in which a very large crop of moderately self-trained programmers pushed aside every other major that their school could have offered them and ran pell-mell for "a sure thing." They dropped out of school or simply didn't go there because you didn't need a college degree to "hack PHP" or "administer a Linux system."

In my opinion, the market for what computer software does is finally beginning to consolidate in favor of a rather small handful of providers who can do the job or provide the service by exploiting an economy of scale. (And in this I don't mean "cheap workers" ... I mean that you can serve 20,000 businesses at once just as easily as you can serve 1. The cost of obtaining something that used to cost $100,000 or more is rapidly being driven down to free, and by "free" I don't mean FOSS. Therefore: the day of the "one-off program," hence of the "one-off programmer" or "the skilled technical worker" are finished along with the necessity for him. Yes, the workers who are hired to replace them in the now-consolidated industries are by and large going to be "cheap immigrants." But the key realization to be made here is: not that "the same demand-profile as before" is now (merely...) being satisfied by "cheaper labor" (even though the demand-profile is changing in this way), but that the profile itself is changing. Drastically and permanently.

Now, lest you think of this as some "conspiracy theory," you should consider that every major industrial trend has proceeded along much the same avenue. This trend, in other words, is not unique. Rather, it would be considered unique if it were absent. But it's going to be very tough for a lot of people despite their nationality:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oracle at Delphi?
What do you plan to do, if you're in your late twenties and you find that jobs as (say) a PHP programmer, or even a skilled Linux administrator, no longer exist to be taken?
Remember: when the Diesel locomotive replaced the steamer in the 1950's, more than half the employees of railroads lost their jobs, and the sustaining industries in thousands of towns (the so-called "back shops" that were needed every hundred miles or so) were closed forever ... while the railroads shipped more ton-miles of freight at less cost than ever. (Their business was foundering due to the costs of steam; they had to do it.)

Hundreds of thousands of predominantly young people have ridden into the job-market on the coat tails of this "information revolution," but do not have the historical grounding to know that such tides inevitably turn ... and are turning, as we speak.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-21-2013 at 11:19 AM.
 
Old 01-21-2013, 08:03 PM   #44
CurtisCoburn
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Sorry to hear that. Keey studying and you will achieve what you want.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 02:04 PM   #45
shivaa
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A good news, dear friends!

I have cleared 2 technical rounds successfully in interviews held in last 3 days!
Things are going good so far and just a discussion with their HR is due, where we will discuss on their policies, salary, technical growth, leadership etc.

However, any (more) suggestion on attitude, appearence, gesture/posture, confidence, soft skills... because this time it's HR, not an experienced technical guy! I am asking this because you all have been so helpful so far and hopefully your suggestions will further help me to improve and get succeed this time!

Thanks all!

Last edited by shivaa; 01-25-2013 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Added
 
  


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