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browny_amiga 06-01-2009 02:28 AM

good riddance BIOS, when can be trash you finally? rant
 
I have endured BIOSes for a looong time and now they are finally getting on my nerves..

see here... just another example of a few hours wasted for nothing....

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...7/#post3558656

Bioses are old, outdated, totally dinosauric and suck big time. Sorry I cannot say it any other way. Anybody that feels with me, please respond.

It is not enough that the industry is recloning and reanimating a zombi corpse that died 10 years ago, no, they proudly still install it on any mobo that you can buy.
I mean, heck, does anybody notice? it is the 21st century for Gods sake!!! We have the your 2009 and still this POS old garbage is hindering boot times and limit computers in a miriad of ways.

BIOSes hold back computer in a very nasty way, ever found that your BIOS does not like your new HD? Or your controller or your boot device? Well, tough luck, the OEM does not release a new BIOS version since 2 years, so you can dump it on the trash, although the hardware would be still fine.

I already had to do incredible dumb workarounds (like booting off a 10 gigabyte HD) because the BIOS was too stupid to recognize the 250 Gbyte HD and boot from it. Linux of course had not trouble handling the disk, so as soon as I had the kernel loaded, and left this old decrepit POS Bios I was fine..

really...

I am sick and tired of it...

ever noticed how Macs don't need BIOSes? Ever had an Amiga? Seen how there was no BIOS and no need for it? Hold down your both mouse buttons and you can select your boot device.. and now...ladies and gentlement...

THAT WAS 1987!!!!!!!! and you know what? It had a graphical user interface that you could use your mouse with. To shift up and down device priority.

Get real, more than 20 years later, there is still no mouse support, still no GUI, all text, nothing else.
Does anybody from the OEMs listen? How expensive is an eeprom? That stuff costs nothing anymore.

I mean this is a huge joke and I am sure there will be people now defending it and yes, it is you that make sure we are not moving one inch into the future. It is your complacency that blocks and makes sure we stay exactly where we are.. in 1991, on IBM PC compatible.

Darn, I am so annoyed...

this was now 5 years of annoyance going off, 5 years of grappling and having to deal with this oldest and crappiest piece of every computer.

about 10 years of waiting hours, days and months of legacy mode BIOS checking some hardware, at glacial pace. Server are especially aweful, since you got RAID controllers.. Ever seen how fast an IMac boots up? Guess why...

Markus

pierre2 06-01-2009 06:14 AM

True BIOSs are dinosaurs but I have used some with a mouse & could point N click the options.

GazL 06-01-2009 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browny_amiga (Post 3558664)

ever noticed how Macs don't need BIOSes? Ever had an Amiga?
about 10 years of waiting hours, days and months of legacy mode BIOS checking some hardware, at glacial pace. Server are especially aweful, since you got RAID controllers.. Ever seen how fast an IMac boots up? Guess why...

Markus

The Amiga had an equivalent of a BIOS. It was called the Kickstart ROM. The Mac has an equivalent (though more modern approach) called EFI. Different names, but they all do pretty much the same job, dealing with initialising hardware.

Ever see BeOS or QNX Neutrino boot up on a PC, or even good old DOS? They're all pretty damn quick! Despite running on BIOS controlled hardware.

Back in the day, my BBC micro or VIC=20 took less time to turn on than it takes to say 'beep', but the hardware is significantly more complex these days.

I too long for the days of the Amiga and believe that computers and especially the OSes that run on them have just become too damn big and complicated for their own good, but this is a bigger problem than just the BIOS.

And if you think servers with lots of raid disks take a long time, think yourself lucky you've never had to startup a mainframe from a fully powered down state!

pixellany 06-01-2009 06:51 AM

Moved: This thread is more suitable in <General> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

syg00 06-01-2009 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazL (Post 3558840)
And if you think servers with lots of raid disks take a long time, think yourself lucky you've never had to startup a mainframe from a fully powered down state!

As this thread illustrates, technology moves on - especially for the big iron.
PoR and IPL is pretty good on latest kit.

V!NCENT 06-01-2009 08:26 AM

Dude, get yourself a motherboard that is supported by Coreboot. Then flash it with the Coreboot flash app thing that works under Linux and it boots in no-time.

This should get you started: http://www.coreboot.org/

Edit: PS: Google, AMD and the FSF are all over it so don't worry about the future ;)

Jeebizz 06-01-2009 12:45 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't EFI supposed to be the successor to BIOS? Intel macs use EFI since Intel is responsible for EFI, as opposed to PPC macs which still uses OpenBoot.

I had thought by now you would have seen SOME PC boards that would offer EFI, but I guess maybe that some Intel boards only?

corbintechboy 06-01-2009 01:17 PM

Sorry but I don't share in this. With ease of use comes dumbing down and that means tweaks fly out the window. I enjoy going into a BIOS and changing various setting to get my system to do what I want. I don't need some guy in a suit and tie thinking his one size fits all.

Happy BIOS user here!

Jeebizz 06-01-2009 01:22 PM

Just because there is a 'wizard' option for novice, I am sure that there is also an 'advanced' window available. It would be stupid for the programmers not to add an advanced feature for those with more experience in computers and who want to customize their own setup.

corbintechboy 06-01-2009 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebizz (Post 3559324)
Just because there is a 'wizard' option for novice, I am sure that there is also an 'advanced' window available. It would be stupid for the programmers not to add an advanced feature for those with more experience in computers and who want to customize their own setup.

You may be correct, but my theory is that it is not broke why fix it?

H_TeXMeX_H 06-01-2009 02:36 PM

I don't see anything wrong with BIOSes, except that they are not open source. That may change soon however ... hopefully.

browny_amiga 06-01-2009 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V!NCENT (Post 3558999)
Dude, get yourself a motherboard that is supported by Coreboot. Then flash it with the Coreboot flash app thing that works under Linux and it boots in no-time.

This should get you started: http://www.coreboot.org/

Edit: PS: Google, AMD and the FSF are all over it so don't worry about the future ;)

You know, I will seriously look into that. SO far I have heard about it, but found that it hardly supports any motherboard, but things might have changed.

It might be the solution for my problems. In the same way that I started to just buy HP printers and scanners, since I know for sure that they will work with Linux and will not be a headache driver wise.

Markus

browny_amiga 06-01-2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corbintechboy (Post 3559315)
Sorry but I don't share in this. With ease of use comes dumbing down and that means tweaks fly out the window. I enjoy going into a BIOS and changing various setting to get my system to do what I want. I don't need some guy in a suit and tie thinking his one size fits all.

Happy BIOS user here!

That is certainly does. It is simple. Too simple, for our modern times. Ever had the BIOS fail epic on something you wanted it to do? Recognize some new hardware, that it should not initialize, but just leave alone, because the OS will initialize it? No, everything needs to go through the BIOS and since it is very limited and as said before, OEMs don't release new BIOSes very soon after the board is out, so thanks to that, any Mobo will pretty soon be old obsolete iron.

It is simple, but way too limiting.

Markus

browny_amiga 06-01-2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corbintechboy (Post 3559352)
You may be correct, but my theory is that it is not broke why fix it?


That is true. And LA also has a perfectly working transportation system, it works flawlessly. No need for serious public transportation, there are no traffic jams and more and more impossibility to get anywhere in a short time (sarcasm off) ;-)

I guess what is a problem is a very relative thing: somebodies big problem is somebody "totally ok".

browny_amiga 06-01-2009 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H (Post 3559400)
I don't see anything wrong with BIOSes, except that they are not open source. That may change soon however ... hopefully.

It might change, but not in a loooooong time. Ever seen how the OEMs work? They shun and avoid Linux whereever they can, sometimes I wonder if they think open source is some contagious disease. You know, it would be so open to use Linux as a BIOS, sooooo easy! They would not even have to do it themselves. The community would help. But heck, these decision makes must be old men and women, conservative and stuck on the old old old thing of recooking and recooking BIOS. Change as little as possible, over more than 20 years.

If we would all think like this, we would now have powerful cars, very modern, with a STEAM plant and looking like a locomotive, because if it ain't broken, don't fix it and just improve on the original design, slightly, as little as possible, because that costs money and ingeniuity.

To me it seems that the industry lost the guy that had the inventive spark and is now just cooking up the old stuff. Much like when Jobs left Apple, no new Macs came out.. but wait, Performas were there. Looking, exactly like.... PCs I am sure that was not because he liked them so much, but because he really did not know how to create something new.

A BIOS would require a diagnostic section, where Hardware diagnostics can be run, and maybe a place where you can install an OS (if you get the board new), directly from the internet with Netboot and to satisfy everybody, a browser (yes, all BIOSes need s TCP/IP stack and a basic browser, ever noticed how you cannot connect to the internet for BIOS upgrades within the BIOS? They just can make it with that old garbage so far) and so an internetshop where so inclined people can shell out the cash for their Windows license and then start downloading and automatically installing their Windows Vista or 7 or whatever.
Or as I know MS, first have a trial, then get the open hand for the license fee or lights out ;-) *grin*

Markus


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