I couldn't agree more. Let's keep on topic, not turn this into a religious debate. The gunman's religion is not the topic, he could worship dirty purple underwear that told him to kill people, in the end, he's still delirious, delusional and totally f**ked in the head from his actions in taking other people's lives.

Remember, that he is just a suspect. Oh, wait, in Kommunist Amerika you're guilty before proven guilty ... sorry.

Who, exactly, has proven him guilty? What court? What jurisdiction?

agree with mjolnir and trickykid on this one. FYI, Last I heard the major had not yet been charged.

The courts have to assume he is innocent until proven guilty. The news media is not required to do so.

The news media often acts like they have an ethical duty to assume a suspect innocent, even though they have no legal duty to do so.

They clearly make exceptions to that ethical rule when doing so fits their political bias (assuming Bush administration officials guilty of the Valery Plame leak not only before proven guilty but even after proven innocent). I assume they will also at least not be blatant about assuming innocence in this case, because they don't want to offend all the ordinary people who would be offended by the suggestion that all the witnesses are lying in the incident.

Ordinary people making comments in a forum are far less required to assume innocence in a case like this than even the media are. So I think failing to assume he is guilty, given the available information, is offensive.

Yeah, but it seems the courts don't matter anymore, if you read the comments on here, and if you know how most people are, they're already yelling "KILL HIM !!!" and "KILL THE MUSLIMS / ARABS !!!". IMO, the media should be put on trial for spreading misinformation and causing general panic and fueling hate crime and indirectly leading to war and genocide. Then they should be the ones that are executed.

lets get this one right out of the way on misrepresentation of islam their religious text preaches hatred and violence, I have read the koran and it is as dangerous, probably more so than mein kampf another wrong peice of gutter literature, this thread is about a man that may or may not have shot someone and the reporting of the incident.

1) He probably did it, we will probably never know the reason why he did it

2) religion and ethnicity are not likely to have anything to do with this as the men were on his base the whole time and survived for a substantial period

3) Tex, nobody should be executed thats the point the media have a right to freedom of expression although mostly there expressions are all twisted and gnarled they are as entitled as we are to be expressed, without this freedom, change and therefore evolution of society and man as a species cannot continue.

The real criminals are people that call for silencing of public voices such as the media, muslim clerics, racists and scholars. I for one would like to encourage a healthy debate inside a room between the racists and extremists, eventually a fight will break out and our problem will be solved. It is also important to recognise that not everything is a racist incident and people sometimes just hate other people

Please don't place "most people" in your stereotypical type responses, not everyone thinks like that and ignore the mainstream media in what they report or say.

Currently while on base, I don't see or hear any soldiers, contractors or civilians going around yelling kill the Muslims, Arabs or the like. These are the very people who would have every cause or right to do such a thing but not one person I've talked to has blamed any religion.

There will always be talk but Hasan will have his day in court. He already did the smart thing by asking for a lawyer. I'm sure his defense will be insanity because well, he's clearly insane.

The courts do matter and it doesn't matter what the media report or what people are yelling on the streets, he won't be convicted by either, but by a court system which is going to be military court. By saying the courts don't matter anymore, you're just spreading propaganda just like the media does.

So, should I say "many people" instead ?

They won't say it, but they think it. I've heard them myself. It isn't obvious at first, but it does slip past.

But, I'll tell you what the biggest problem is, it's that the people believe the media as if they spouted only truth. You can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm right. They are the ministry of truth, where truth is made. People don't even doubt it anymore. Even if the courts say the guy is innocent, nobody will believe it. If I tell you that Timothy McVeigh was innocent, you won't believe me. Nor for Oswald. Even if they had been found innocent, you wouldn't believe me, because the media told you they were guilty. You live in a world constructed by the ministry of truth, and you cannot help but believe what they say. When, one day, you come to realize that, then, and only then do you stand a chance of ever knowing the truth.

That's fascist, not communist. Jeeez. ;D

Bah, they're all the same, Democracy, Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Monarchy, Despotism, Totalitarianism all synonyms. But currently, it's kind of a Fascist, Communist, Totalitarian mix with trace elements of the others.

In any case I prefer a secular dictatorship over a theocratic(superstitious) one. Thats my political jab for today.

Lets get back OT.

This sonofabatching icehole is going to face charges! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8357661.stm

Yes, many people believe everything the mainstream media says, and that is sad because they are usually lying.

But they aren't always lying.

I suppose you think OJ was innocent because the jury said not guilty.

Pending some very extreme and unexpected new information, of course the public will believe Hassan is guilty regardless of what a court says.

Correct.

Because a wide variety of media with widely varying biases gave a whole lot of information that all taken together allows only one conclusion, even if you allow for the fact that most of them are usually lying.

Not yet. But there is a new scary risk that this will soon be true.

McCain-Feingold has already been used to restrain legitimate conservative media with a totally bogus theory that anyone publishing conservative views is part of some Republican candidate's campaign and thus subject to campaign finance rules rather than free press rules.

Obama has already made several attempts to define Fox as not being "news media" and thus not protected by freedom of the press.

The Democrats are pushing hard for a federal journalist shield law, not just to allow those like Judith Miller to lie to the public and then decide not to risk perjury charges by telling the same lie in court, but more importantly because a federal journalist shield law requires the federal government to define "journalist". The most powerful tool they have to eliminate a free press is to define those who disagree with them as not being press.

Hopefully they will fail. Obama clearly lost ground by asking his supporters in the media to help trash Fox faster and more viciously than they were willing to move.

Darn, I forgot all about OJ, thanks for the reminder. Let me guess ... he was innocent too.

Hmmmmm...... Now where did I put that liver and zoot suit?