LinuxQuestions.org
Visit the LQ Articles and Editorials section
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices



Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 06-28-2007, 11:26 AM   #16
XavierP
Moderator
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Kent, England
Distribution: Lubuntu
Posts: 19,176
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430

Speaking as a working class person with no yellow t-shirt .... OUTSIDE NOW!!

Really, what you are saying is that these people (and you don't know their class - having worked on trading floors you could well be talking about wealthy types) are pretty much like people everywhere. If you don't like the people in that pub, find a different one. I drink in pubs in the city and East End and have done for a number of years and haven't heard these conversations.

Although, since you look down on the working classes, maybe a wine bar is more to your liking??
 
Old 06-28-2007, 11:26 AM   #17
mobilemonkey
Member
 
Registered: May 2007
Distribution: slackware 11
Posts: 81

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
Remember this Mr. Mobilemonkey: In a democracy, people have the right to live as they see fit. You may not like or understand it, but that doesn't give them any less right to do as they please.
exactly my point, i wish they'd shut up, and then i wouldnt have to rant in threads like this

the working class in britain is defined (by me, because im always right) by poverty of thought and later education through THEIR own laziness. if you dig the roads but read books and like learning you are not working class, if however you dig the roads and do little else than drink lager, then your a working class zero (heh, good that was wasnt it, i just thought of that! personally i dont drink or smoke, and i run twice a week, and i like to learn, thats what sets the middle class apart from the working class. all of that is not politically correct, but its the truth, AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YE FREE or whatever.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 12:51 PM   #18
alred
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: singapore
Distribution: puppy and Ubuntu and ... erh ... redhat(sort of) :( ... + the venerable bsd and solaris ^_^
Posts: 658
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 31
thats why we should discourage the usages of words like "working class" ... maybe should coin a new discription ...

its just sounds funny ...


.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 01:21 PM   #19
mobilemonkey
Member
 
Registered: May 2007
Distribution: slackware 11
Posts: 81

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP
Speaking as a working class person with no yellow t-shirt .... OUTSIDE NOW!!

Really, what you are saying is that these people (and you don't know their class - having worked on trading floors you could well be talking about wealthy types) are pretty much like people everywhere. If you don't like the people in that pub, find a different one. I drink in pubs in the city and East End and have done for a number of years and haven't heard these conversations.

Although, since you look down on the working classes, maybe a wine bar is more to your liking??
yeah but Xavier you obviously learn, im not talking about people that do make an effort and learn, im talking about people, particularly people who have responsibilitys like kids. they dont try to educate their children, they dont even try to educate themselves. and that frankly disgusts me. most working class fathers in britain go to work, come home, spend 2 hours drinking beer and watching eastenders and coronation street, while the kids upstairs wondering why his dad wont spend more time with him. alot of working class fathers would rather watch a soap opera about a made up family than interact with their own family, thats if theyre not playing xbox, they would rather play computer games. disgusting. i know middleclass fathers may not be there all the time, but they are just misguided to think material wealth is the main thing, at least their hearts are in the right place. i know countless working class fathers that dont give a thought to their children.

you may say im generalizing, but its true in the main, and its true of my experience, i came from a working class home, and there was next to no encouragement, because guess what? yes! my father was too busy watching coronation street and drinking beer \o/

and i dont drink wine, im not a soft southern nancy u know

Last edited by mobilemonkey; 06-28-2007 at 01:24 PM.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 03:15 PM   #20
brianL
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Oldham, Lancs, England
Distribution: Slackware & Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 7,139
Blog Entries: 52

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilemonkey
and i run twice a week.
I'd be running more than twice a week if I shared your views. Anyway, you'll probably grow out of this adolescent snobbery in time.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 04:38 PM   #21
efi
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Athens,Greece
Posts: 30

Rep: Reputation: 15
Somebody has to do the dirty work,and this is the working klass.If they are happy,I do not know.But they all want something better than that for their children,and they work hard for it,I hope.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 05:10 PM   #22
Dragineez
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Annapolis
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 275

Rep: Reputation: 32
Shocking

I've been a little shocked at the number of posts I've read in this forum where the user info and/or content identifies the poster as English - but their use of the language is execrable (XavierP being a notable exception).

Things like not properly capitalizing words, run-on sentences, no paragraph breaks. These are points of grammar and style. That's bad enough, but there's more.

Normally poor grammar in these posts is accompanied by a barely coherent thought process. The post reads like a series of random words strung together to try to form a sentence. Somehow the picture of 500 monkeys banging on typewriters comes to mind. Perhaps it's not impossible for a sonnet to come out of such endeavor - but I doubt it ever would.

Much of your diatribe is as difficult to decipher as alred's ramblings. He, however, has the excuse of being a non-native English speaker.

Whilst stationed in Scotland I had a chance to teach in a small community college. I was very impressed by the level of education of the students. I felt that they had come out of the school system with what amounted to an American Associates Degree.

Apparently, that is true no longer. If the proper use of the English language is of little importance in England, I mourn the demise of the Mother Tongue.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 05:24 PM   #23
mobilemonkey
Member
 
Registered: May 2007
Distribution: slackware 11
Posts: 81

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez

Normally poor grammar in these posts is accompanied by a barely coherent thought process. The post reads like a series of random words strung together to try to form a sentence. Somehow the picture of 500 monkeys banging on typewriters comes to mind.
ill take that as a compliment.

Last edited by mobilemonkey; 06-28-2007 at 05:26 PM.
 
Old 06-28-2007, 06:20 PM   #24
XavierP
Moderator
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Kent, England
Distribution: Lubuntu
Posts: 19,176
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430Reputation: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilemonkey
you may say im generalizing, but its true in the main, and its true of my experience, i came from a working class home, and there was next to no encouragement, because guess what? yes! my father was too busy watching coronation street and drinking beer \o/
We didn't watch Coronation Street in my house. But, your whole post is a massive generalisation. Yes, there are a lot of people who spend an inordinate amount of time in the pub - and, depending on your age and your domestic circumstances this can be either a bad thing or merely something they do.

Let's not forget that spending time with your friends is a great opportunity to relax and to "be yourself". While at work you have to act a certain way, so being out with your friends means you can switch off and enjoy yourself.

I have to say, get out into the world, it gives you a whole new perspective. Or improves on your old one.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 12:45 PM   #25
mobilemonkey
Member
 
Registered: May 2007
Distribution: slackware 11
Posts: 81

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
AND ANOTHER THING!..

firstly may i apologise to any americans on the forum for what im about to post, but ive just read something from last fridays 13th's Independant letters page, which i want to stick up Dragineez

'Mechanical Learning Cripples Creativity.

Sir: Sarah Churchwell asks "why cant British students write like Americans?"(Opinions,11 july). While i share her dismay at poor grammar teaching in our schools I wouldn't adopt the American model for the world and I dispute her assertion that a rote-learned and prescriptive relationship with language is the only possible model.
As head of the creative-writing team at Brunel university in west London, where the campus is probably the most diverse in Britain, I estimate that 87 percent of our first-year undergraduates need to work on their language skills. Many of them also write with confidence, passion and extraordinary inventiveness. The American-educated students, while polished grammarians, seem to be the products of a mechanised teaching process that has nullified their creative instincts and maimed their self-expression as badly as a weak grasp of language. For example, a Chicago educated young writer doing a PhD with us once described the massacre in Tiananmen square as "unpleasent" and winced at the suggestion that a stronger term would have been appropriate.'

Celia Brayfield - Brunel University


which is a feeling ive had for years, and i recognised in that article. so Dragineez, you are wrong to dismiss someones ideas on the basis of poor grammar.

Last edited by mobilemonkey; 07-16-2007 at 12:57 PM.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 01:49 PM   #26
Dragineez
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Annapolis
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 275

Rep: Reputation: 32
Self Reinforcing Fallacy

I've re-read my post, and several others, to try to discern where I might have given the impression that I dismissed one's ideas solely on the basis of poor grammar. As near as I can tell - I have never intimated in any way, shape, or form that grammar or writing skill was my single - or even most important - evaluation criteria.

I accept that the lack of these writing skills is not an indication of creativity. However, your supposition that the reverse is true is equally a logical non sequitur.

I have great patience and sympathy for non-native English speakers who must sometimes struggle to express themselves. Many do a remarkably good job despite the language barrier. Your own quote makes that very same point by stating that the campus of Brunel university in west London "is probably the most diverse in Britain, I estimate that 87 percent of our first-year undergraduates need to work on their language skills." The word "diverse" is PC speak for foreign non-native English speakers.

The problem with the quote you cite is that it is a generalization, and like all generalizations, cannot possibly be universally applicable. I can point you to numerous examples of educated American writers who do "write with confidence, passion and extraordinary inventiveness." I, of course, exclude myself from this category as I mostly write for the Legal and Engineering fields (which are notably devoid of creativity ).

The penchant to use overly softened terms to describe events is certainly not endemic to America. Wasn't it Britain's new Prime Minister that forbade using the word "muslim" and "terrorist" in the same sentence? Seems a bit like banning the use of the words "water" and "wet" when describing a dampening event. Silly.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 02:18 PM   #27
mobilemonkey
Member
 
Registered: May 2007
Distribution: slackware 11
Posts: 81

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Normally poor grammar in these posts is accompanied by a barely coherent thought process.
you contradict yourself, Dragineez.

Last edited by mobilemonkey; 07-16-2007 at 02:21 PM.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 02:48 PM   #28
alred
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: singapore
Distribution: puppy and Ubuntu and ... erh ... redhat(sort of) :( ... + the venerable bsd and solaris ^_^
Posts: 658
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 31
anything that holds true for anyone are untranslatable to anyone else ... or is it ... ??


.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 04:17 PM   #29
Dragineez
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Annapolis
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 275

Rep: Reputation: 32
Gentlemen's Agreement

I didn't view it as a blanket indictment of the grammatically challenged. Obviously you do. I'll not be able to persuade you to my point of view. You have the same chance of convincing me of yours.

We can respectfully agree to disagree. This is sometimes done - even in English pubs.
 
Old 07-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #30
Crito
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Distribution: Kubuntu 9.04
Posts: 1,168

Rep: Reputation: 53
And what have we learned from this exercise?

How you say something matters more that what you're saying. Eloquent boolshiat reigns supreme.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there English-to-English dictionary in linux? uishen Linux - General 27 06-03-2009 11:36 PM
Way to use a good free English to English Dictionary linbose Linux - Software 6 06-03-2009 11:25 PM
i am looking for a english to english dictionary for RedHat8.0 rddreamz Linux - Software 1 07-10-2004 11:58 AM
Can I have english menu with chinese/english/spanish input? codec Linux - General 9 10-04-2003 08:18 PM
english-english dictionary for linux zozia Linux - Software 4 09-21-2003 03:32 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration