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Old 09-25-2013, 06:51 AM   #16
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
If it was an email received asking such a thing then I agree completely.
However, both Hotmail and Google Mail have asked me for a phone number when logging in. Google will accept "no" for an answer but I have a feeling I gave MS a fake number as it's useful to have a Hotmail account but if I lose it I'll just use something else.
Well Yes, but those are only for recovery after your account has been compromised/blocked/cleaned (and not mandatory).

Example:
Quote:
Your account has been blocked
Why are you seeing this?
Someone may have used your account to send out a lot of junk messages (or something else that violates the Windows Live Terms of Service).
We're here to help you get your account back.
What do you need to do?
We'll ask you to provide us with a mobile phone number where we can send you a verification code and we'll add this phone number to your Windows Live profile for future use. After you enter the code, you can change your password and sign in.
We've cleaned your account settings
Often customers get here because someone else has access to your account and are using it without your knowledge to send spam. To protect you and your contacts, we've removed any Hotmail auto-replies or linked accounts you may have had.
If both your hotmail and gmail accounts are compromised, I'd be more worried about the actual cause for that.

EDIT: Don't ever use this type of verification though.
Contact their customer service instead.

Last edited by jens; 09-25-2013 at 07:27 AM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 02:16 PM   #17
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Well Yes, but those are only for recovery after your account has been compromised/blocked/cleaned (and not mandatory).
That is not the case.
They ask for them as you log in "to prevent your account becoming compromised in future" -- they can hardly use your phone number to unlock your account if you didn't enter one in the first place.
Google, admittedly, just pesters you for this a few times then gives up.
I just checked Hotmail and it asks for a number but does give an option saying "skip - 7 days until this is required" (emphasis mine). I don't know about anybody else's dialect but in mine "required" means "must be done" and does not mean "optional".
 
Old 09-25-2013, 03:22 PM   #18
Z038
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I got one of those messages a few weeks ago, but I also had the option of supplying an alternate email address instead of a phone number. You don't have that option?
 
Old 09-25-2013, 03:23 PM   #19
Lola Kews
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After opening an Opera account yesterday I tried to send mail and was told the following:

"SEND FAILED You may not send mail untill you have verified your account. Please verify your account by SMS"
(I don't know what SMS means. Probably * mail service, but I'm guessing.

When you click on the note it takes you to another form where you are asked for your cell phone number! I put in my home phone number (no cell phone) and it wasn't accepted. I was going to copy the forms and paste them here but it won't allow you to do that either!

I went to there forum, there was a posting of the very thing I just told you.

If one doesn't have a cell phone (to give away your number) you "CAN NOT" open a working Opera account.

If anyone thinks this is the work of a "Hacker" go open an account and see for yourself.


I am WIDE OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS for an email account that doesn't want a cell phone number!

Almost forgot, they will accept incoming mail but NO outgoing mail.

The BIG question here I think is WHY are the trying so hard for those cell numbers? You can bet your last dollar it is NOT to help you or me, that's good enough reason to say NO for me.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 03:27 PM   #20
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SMS (Short Message Service) is the name for what are often called "text messages" sent to mobile phones.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #21
Z038
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SMS is short message service. It's used, among other things, for sending text messages to/from cell phones. It is also usually supported by pagers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola Kews View Post
The BIG question here I think is WHY are the trying so hard for those cell numbers? You can bet your last dollar it is NOT to help you or me, that's good enough reason to say NO for me.
For marketing purposes, at the minimum. Most likely also at the behest of governments who want to be able to tie all of your online activity together for tracking and identification purposes.

Last edited by Z038; 09-25-2013 at 03:33 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 03:52 PM   #22
Lola Kews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enine View Post
I purchased my own domain and pay $50 a year to host my mail. Worth it IMHO to not have to change things around if/when i change providers.
This sounds interesting, can you explain more about doing it and the best place to go? Any cons to doing this?
 
Old 09-25-2013, 04:07 PM   #23
Lola Kews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z038 View Post
SMS is short message service. It's used, among other things, for sending text messages to/from cell phones. It is also usually supported by pagers.




For marketing purposes, at the minimum. Most likely also at the behest of governments who want to be able to tie all of your online activity together for tracking and identification purposes.
I don't believe thats what they are up to (ONLY)! They already have a good marketing scheme in relation to reading your email!

Theres a lot more to it then that, and now is the time to say "NO", it'l be to darn late for those stupid enough to give there cell numbers away! Remember cell phones are usually under contract for xxx period of time, so one is in a captured position whether they like it are not.

Then they could refuse "new" numbers to those who want to change services and litterraly have your phone number as a second type of social security number since if you want a phone you would have to keep that number, understand?
That is just one idea, I can think of a lot worse!
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:07 PM   #24
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z038 View Post
SMS

For marketing purposes, at the minimum. Most likely also at the behest of governments who want to be able to tie all of your online activity together for tracking and identification purposes.
Those accounts are tied with your other systems from the same vendor (PC/Phone/Tablet/Xbox).

Neither require your phone number as claimed above (how else could it work for people without a cell phone).
Hotmail (do note that this is your official MS account) does seem to require an other address though ...
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:07 PM   #25
Z038
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I usually take the cynical view too, I just don't like to over-emphasize it on a public forum. That's why I mentioned marketing "at the minimum". I think data collection for marketing purposes is a real objective of web businesses, particularly those that offer "free" services. It is also a credible justification for intrusive questioning that people will assume on their own or readily accept. I doubt most people accept that it is simply so the benevolent web service can help you recover your account in the event it gets compromised.

Like you, I believe there is more to it than that, which I alluded to subsequently. The elimination of online anonymity facilitates tracking of people's activities in both cyberspace and meatspace, and furthers the ability of government to regulate and control. Control is the objective of government. This is nothing new, as Proudhon wrote in 1851:

Quote:
"To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."

- Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, from John Beverly Robinson's 1923 English translation of Idée Générale De La Revolution Au XIXe Siecle, written by Proudhon in 1851
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #26
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I don't know about anybody else's dialect but in mine "required" means "must be done" and does not mean "optional".
http://oi42.tinypic.com/veufjc.jpg

Last edited by jens; 09-25-2013 at 06:11 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:16 PM   #27
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z038 View Post
I usually take the cynical view too, I just don't like to over-emphasize it on a public forum. That's why I mentioned marketing "at the minimum". I think data collection for marketing purposes is a real objective of web businesses, particularly those that offer "free" services. It is also a credible justification for intrusive questioning that people will assume on their own or readily accept. I doubt most people accept that it is simply so the benevolent web service can help you recover your account in the event it gets compromised.

Like you, I believe there is more to it than that, which I alluded to subsequently. The elimination of online anonymity facilitates tracking of people's activities in both cyberspace and meatspace, and furthers the ability of government to regulate and control. Control is the objective of government. This is nothing new, as Proudhon wrote in 1851:
I'm not being cynical and I do see this as a normal safety procedure.

Last edited by jens; 09-25-2013 at 06:17 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:20 PM   #28
Z038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
I'm not being cynical and I do see this as a normal safety procedure.
When I said "like you", I was referring to Lola Kews. But in any case, is safety the only purpose you believe such a procedure serves? If so, why demand a cell phone? Why not an alternative email address, or even better, a series of security questions?

Last edited by Z038; 09-25-2013 at 06:21 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #29
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z038 View Post
When I said "like you", I was referring to Lola Kews. But in any case, is safety the only purpose you believe such a procedure serves? If so, why demand a cell phone? Why not an alternative email address, or even better, a series of security questions?
They (Microsoft) do give you this option (as mentioned above).
http://oi42.tinypic.com/veufjc.jpg

It's even easier with Google (plenty of options including security questions).

Do keep in mind that these accounts are a lot more than just email.

Last edited by jens; 09-25-2013 at 06:42 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #30
Z038
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Originally Posted by jens View Post
They (Microsoft) do give you this option (as mentioned above).
http://oi42.tinypic.com/veufjc.jpg

It's even easier with Google (plenty of options including security questions).
Right, I've never seen a case where giving a cell phone number was the only available option. Both Google and Microsoft have asked me for a cell phone before, but I've always had the option to provide alternate email instead. However, Lola suggests that option isn't available in her/his case for Microsoft email account, and stated that a cell phone was required for Opera. I remain skeptical, but that is the claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Do keep in mind that these accounts are a lot more than just email.
Ok, but I don't see why that makes a difference.
 
  


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