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Old 09-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #106
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Just because remains haven't been found, doesn't mean they don't exist. Pretty obvious, to me, anyway.
I agree with what you are saying but the only evidence we have is what is available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
How much of the land area of Europe and Asia been searched? Any likely places been searched at all?
Well considering remains can be many (5-10 or more) metres below ground I'd have to say that not much of Europe or Asia has ben searched, if Europe had it'd be all dug up. With regards to "likely places", to me it is highly probable that in places like Europe and various places in Asia most remains, if there are any, would be well under established settlement areas or agricultural areas that have mechanised agriculture that has damaged anything anyway. Another problem is the highly destructive wars during the 20th Century that occured in Europe.
 
Old 09-05-2013, 09:18 PM   #107
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Basements\* can be scary...

Worry about cancer drugs lost to clearing rainforests so what of archaeologists nightmares?

Perhaps the missing links were looted or even destroyed out of fear\*?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-05-2013 at 09:22 PM.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 03:01 AM   #108
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Perhaps the missing links were looted or even destroyed out of fear\*?
That's possible.

Also, for the unobservant, the full article is available for may last post. Here it is if you don't care to search:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture12511.html
Click PDF for the pdf.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 03:48 AM   #109
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Also, for the unobservant, the full article is available for may last post. Here it is if you don't care to search: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture12511.html Click PDF for the pdf.
The "for the unobservant" comment is not required, I posted the link in post 103.
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The actual article, another link altogether,
It seems you are the unobservant one cause you must have missed that.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 06:03 AM   #110
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Yeah, I read, or glanced through, the full article. A bit over my head, having read only "Evolution for Dummies" grade books. I accept the general ideas about evolution, without bothering about the fine details.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 06:37 AM   #111
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But, the devil is in the details.

They construct those trees by using an algorithm to generate the tree with the highest statistical chance of being the correct one. This article has thrown a wrench in it.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 03:15 PM   #112
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That article needs a summary written in plain English that anybody not involved in that field could understand. If possible.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #113
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Quote:
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Just because remains haven't been found, doesn't mean they don't exist. Pretty obvious, to me, anyway. How much of the land area of Europe and Asia been searched? Any likely places been searched at all?
Why just land? Earth consists of water areas aswell and more..they are not explored enough. Google is trying though..who knows? Maybe soon we will also have Google Underwater maps to see all ships and stuff that is buried there?
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{...}The actual article, another link altogether, is interesting and brings about the question, bringing this back to the evolution of the human species, could we have evolve in seperate locations and not in Africa as suggested by the Out of Africa theory? If yes, why aren't there remains as old as Africa? I'd suggest we didn't.
Yea..i was gonna mention that theory aswell that Africa was just continium not birth of humanity.
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Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Worry about cancer drugs lost to clearing rainforests so what of archaeologists nightmares?

Perhaps the missing links were looted or even destroyed out of fear\*?
Yea..we should care more but not become paranoid.

Highly unlikely since people in past had no info about what is missing link to begin with. If it was destroyed or hidden recently then - another hint something is fishy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
But, the devil is in the details.

They construct those trees by using an algorithm to generate the tree with the highest statistical chance of being the correct one. This article has thrown a wrench in it.
Speaking about deities, details and trees..ever noticed that leaf branch(long part that connects leaf to tree) structure is similar to human bone?

Last edited by Arcane; 09-06-2013 at 04:45 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old 09-06-2013, 05:19 PM   #114
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But, the devil is in the details. ...
It's also easy to see evolution in viruses as they evolve over just a few years; related to the posturing article I think. (haven't quite had time to finish it yet)
Quote:
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...
Highly unlikely since people in past had no info about what is missing link to begin with. ...
So maybe they threw it out or destroyed it just because? I agree with we don't need a missing link (or dust as the case maybe) to prove evolution. Whats needed is disproving other "theories\traditions..." Don't see how you could keep this out of a philosophical discussion on evolution? (Speaking of posturing;) René Descartes could pretend he had in a nonexistent “universe” nobody(only mind;) because first he learned, then while able to see, closed his eyes… http://godisimaginary.com/video2.htm (more yummy spam I know)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-06-2013 at 05:43 PM.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 05:34 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
{...}René Descartes could pretend he had in a nonexistent “universe” nobody(only mind because first he learned, then while able to see, closed his eyes… http://godisimaginary.com/video2.htm
And that person is authority because..? Oh right..usualy people mention random people and in those cases this quote fits
Quote:
Gil Grissom: I don't trust people, they tend to lie. Evidence nevers lies. CSI
Too bad some people don't take this advice IRL or if they can't find evidence they make fake ones and set people up.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 05:42 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
And that person is authority because..? Oh right..usualy people mention random people and in those cases this quote fits
Quote:
Gil Grissom: I don't trust people, they tend to lie. Evidence nevers lies. CSI
Too bad some people don't take this advice IRL or if they can't find evidence they make fake ones and set people up.
So "forensic science" they call it? What a joke. Not to mention TV vs reality (René is in that book as well++ sorry I am too vague at times)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-06-2013 at 06:01 PM.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 06:15 PM   #117
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I see religion is being brought into this again. There are plenty of threads for that discussion so please leave it out of this one. I will ask for this thread to be closed if it keeps happening. With regards to cancer drugs and rainforest, please start a thread on that and discuss that problem there and I am sure many will participate (I would if people kept quoting you cause I can't see what youa re posting any other way), this topic is about evolution if you partake here you agree to discuss evolution not complain about the loss of rainforests which deserves its own thread.

@ Arcane, with regards to searching for remaims underwater, I assume you mean places that have been flooded when the water levels rose approximately 10kya, things such as bone, wood, etc etc etc would have disolved in the time since then. Meaning there would be nothing left to find.

@ BrianL, I agree that is why scholarly articles have an Abstract at the beginning that explains the article itself and garners the readers interest into reading the entire article.
 
Old 09-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
{...}@ Arcane, with regards to searching for remaims underwater, I assume you mean places that have been flooded when the water levels rose approximately 10kya, things such as bone, wood, etc etc etc would have disolved in the time since then. Meaning there would be nothing left to find.{...}
Something like that. Also i know that pretty much anything would be gone by now but that is not why i suggested underwater searches. We still can find lot of useful stuff down there sleeping with fishes for museum needs but we also need that information to create working formula about how stuff progressed and remaining items will give clues so we can reverse engineer events. When that formula be working we can fill in gaps ourselves.
 
Old 09-07-2013, 06:36 PM   #119
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Something like that. Also i know that pretty much anything would be gone by now but that is not why i suggested underwater searches. We still can find lot of useful stuff down there sleeping with fishes for museum needs but we also need that information to create working formula about how stuff progressed and remaining items will give clues so we can reverse engineer events. When that formula be working we can fill in gaps ourselves.
Problem is there will be nothing left to find to use to fill in the gaps. 10000 years is a very long time and nothing porous (bone, wood) would last that long in any form that is usable or even recognisable. Other things like settlements (camp sites, asociated hard artifacts such as stone tools or whatever) would have been washed away with the rising water and each change of tide. You would then need a current (as in water current) map to see where the currents would take anything and then look along the path of the currents "drift" to see if anything is there. Don't forget you would also most probably need to dig into the see bed (sand etc) like archaeologists do on land to locate items that could quite conceivably (if the survived 10000 years in salt water that is) be under metres of sand. I almost forgot to mention that currents 10kya would have been very different to currents today or 5kya. This means you would need a current map for every possible current.

To put is simpky there are many variables, even if something did survive in a recognisable form, that would make is extremely difficult if not impossible to garner any useful information form it.
 
Old 09-08-2013, 04:54 AM   #120
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Problem is there will be nothing left to find to use to fill in the gaps. 10000 years is a very long time and nothing porous (bone, wood) would last that long in any form that is usable or even recognisable. Other things like settlements (camp sites, asociated hard artifacts such as stone tools or whatever) would have been washed away with the rising water and each change of tide.{...}
To put is simpky there are many variables, even if something did survive in a recognisable form, that would make is extremely difficult if not impossible to garner any useful information form it.
Well..there is also another possible option that works - frozen water locations on Earth(Arctic, Antarctica) may contain something useful when unfrozen since in frozen state stuff lasts much much longer.
 
  


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