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Old 09-27-2006, 04:00 PM   #1
Rotwang
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Dear Debian


Dear Debian,
http://tabo.aurealsys.com/archives/2...er-and-easier/



And while I'm here, I wonder if I can count this as a prediction:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...d.php?t=156104
 
Old 09-27-2006, 04:41 PM   #2
rickh
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I can install Debian and have a complete system up and running..., sound, video, and network including wireless, in less than two hours. It's not because I'm particularly smart or any kind of a Linux guru ... it's just easy. Ubuntu: African word for "Too dumb to install Debian."

Last edited by rickh; 09-30-2006 at 07:39 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 05:02 PM   #3
Mega Man X
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There was little to no difference between the Ubuntu installer before dapper and the latest Debian installer. Things has changed since the dapper release though. The old Debian installer was just horrible. I started with Debian 2.x (codename Potato) and there is no worse installer than that. Even floppy distributions as Greycat Linux were way better. Seriously. The community still believes that Debian is hard to install, but it is not anymore.

I personally am a big Ubuntu fan. I fail to see why peoples insist in making jokes saying that Ubuntu means "Too dumb to install Debian" or "I can't install Slackware". It is just not funny...

Last edited by Mega Man X; 09-27-2006 at 05:04 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 05:07 PM   #4
craigevil
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The Debian netinstall takes less than an 30 minutes to get a working desktop. Or try Kanotix , takes about 20 minutes to be up and running.

The problem with Ubuntu is that it doesn't give back to Debian and it doesn't use Debian repos.

Ubuntu may have started as a Debian based distro but its not Debian.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 06:37 PM   #5
bulliver
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Quote:
Ubuntu: African word for "Too dumb to install Debian."
Ouch....!

It could also mean "For those who don't want to deal with Debian's slow as molasses update schedule and militant stance against litigious software that end-users will acquire from a third party anyway in order to use their box"

Disclaimer: I use neither Ubuntu nor Debian.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 07:27 PM   #6
FreeDoughnut
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Debian's the best! Ubuntu tries to make their applications user friendly but makes them slower and breaks packages.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 10:47 PM   #7
vharishankar
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Quote:
It could also mean "For those who don't want to deal with Debian's slow as molasses update schedule and militant stance against litigious software that end-users will acquire from a third party anyway in order to use their box"
Most distros have their own politics. If you want to use a distro without any kind of politics you need to create your own. Believe it or not, when human beings get together for a common cause, you invariably cannot avoid politics.

Debian has certain official policies which are enforced and believe it or not, that's why the quality of Debian packages are so good - they're official and they comply with policy and have to adhere to certain standards. If there are certain packages not available in Debian, it's because of legal issues involving distribution and most distros wouldn't ship those packages anyway.

Secondly keeping a system fairly up-to-date is easy in Debian as you just need to point to the "testing" branch instead of stable. Testing is nearly as stable and you get very recent versions of most software, so the "Slow to update" argument is null and void.

To address the next point about software availability, Debian testing at the moment has more than 18000+ packages (including contrib and non-free software) and for packages not strictly released as FOSS, Debian users merely need to insert the line "contrib" and "non-free" in their repositories and will get access to tons of non-free software as well.

This is the kind of Debian-bashing that's very popular on this forum and it continues to surprise me as it's one of the two most mature and long-standing distributions (Slackware being the other one).

Next point to note - Debian is one of the few distributions that are available in a *variety* of non-x86 platforms as well. That's a huge achievement... and also part of the reason why updates to "stable" are slow - because packages need to be tested on all platforms.

Ubuntu is no doubt the hottest thing happening out there now, but it's the current fad and people will soon get over it. All said and done, we Linux users tend to come back to home to the most established and respected distributions.

Last edited by vharishankar; 09-27-2006 at 10:59 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2006, 10:55 PM   #8
bulliver
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Hey harishankar: don't get me wrong. I am well aware of Debian's policies, and I respect their wishes to implement whatever policy they want. What I posted here was simply a counterpoint to rickh's assertion that Ubuntu is for those "too stupid to install Debian", which I don't think you can deny is more of a 'bash' than anything I wrote. In fact, I hardly see how what I posted is a bash at all.

Take a deep breathe and don't read too much into it. Again, I don't use either distro...
 
Old 09-27-2006, 11:02 PM   #9
vharishankar
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Yeah, no worries. I understand the nature of your comments were in a lighter vein, but this post of mine was made generally so as to clear a few issues with people who claim that certain distros are "political".

Many of the reasons for Debian's slow updates lies in the stringent package testing policy and the fact that there are dozens of platforms to test under.

As for Ubuntu, I personally did not like the "sudo" thing and the fact it ships with Gnome otherwise it's a great distro.

When I recently tried the "Etch" beta 3 installer, I am not happy with the way it's heading. I, for one, don't want Debian's installation to be "dumbed" down any further.

Last edited by vharishankar; 09-27-2006 at 11:04 PM.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 01:36 AM   #10
easuter
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Quote:
Ubuntu: African word for "Too dumb to install Debian."
lol

Debian is not my favourite distro at all, but i can use it if necessary.
I just can't stand Ubuntu, starting with the name and logo. I guess since i lived in africa for 7 years, i can say its not exactly a utopic place at all, but that is already off-topic.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 04:31 PM   #11
carlosinfl
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I am really scared that Debian will start to mirror Ubuntu...If I find that they start to add Ubuntu packages to Debian, I will need to look elsewhere...
 
Old 09-30-2006, 07:09 AM   #12
Garda
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my $0.02

installing debian shouldn't require

Code:
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
in order to have anything other than 640x480 on a popular ATI graphics card.

it's ok for me, but for anybody who doesn't know slightly obscure package manager commands, you would be stuck with a dirty ugly desktop
 
Old 09-30-2006, 01:27 PM   #13
davcefai
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One of the strengths - and weaknesses - of Linux is the number of distros that exist.

For about seven years I tried to use Linux every 18 months or so, but was dissatisfied with what I got. Then I tried Mandrake 9.0 and fell in love.

Had I tried Debian at that point I probably would not have converted. Mandrake made the transition relatively easy.

I have since moved to Debian precisely because of the Debian Policies and the totally free nature of the distro. With Mandrake, and later Mandriva, updates were relatively scarce and Mandriva have structured their distro to suck you into a paid-for subscription.

It's not the money but this kind of tactic bothers me. It seems somewhat MSish.

I can't really empathise with the whines about Debian updates. I run Unstable and download 20 to 80MB of updates on most days. The vast majority of these updates, although "unstable" work extremely well out of the box. (Updating udev is however a coin toss as to whether the system will boot afterwards )

If Ubuntu will attract new users to Linux then that's great. Once these new users become more familiar with the OS then they may well decide to switch to a distro with less flashy features but superb stability.
 
Old 09-30-2006, 06:25 PM   #14
uselpa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harishankar
If you want to use a distro without any kind of politics you need to create your own
Well... it will be your politics that it implements, but it will not be free of politics either
 
Old 09-30-2006, 07:22 PM   #15
vtel57
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While Ubuntu is my primary OS, I do have Deb Etch on my system. It was quite easy to install... even Deb Sarge was easy to install. I'm not a Linux guru by any stretch of the imagination. I booted to Linux for the first time in July of this year.
 
  


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