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Xeratul 05-22-2013 11:20 AM

Creation Date of the World First Computer ?
 
Hi,

Likely it has been shown to be about 2000 years old.

What I am against with is that this discovery has been
published into Nature.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/2731

Is it a computer, really? - Actually not really a computer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer

Nature allow publishing whatever nowadays for
making a good marketing and business.

This should be really forbidden. Science isnt marketing.


What's for you the first world computer? Digital were quite good.

Greetings

John VV 05-22-2013 12:11 PM

I would consider that the Antikythera device is indeed a computer .

a complex but limited non programmable one ,yes , but still a "computing device"

salasi 05-22-2013 03:30 PM

It is a computer, but not a general purpose computer. That first link is 'The History Blog', and not Nature; is that what you intended?

I suspect that whatever definition of 'Computer' that you take, 'Digital' didn't make the first. They weren't even one of the 'BUNCH'.

jefro 05-22-2013 08:58 PM

There was a very good tv show about that find.

The wiki page is wrong. ". Since a sequence of operations can be readily changed, the computer can solve more than one kind of problem." No, there is no need for this to prove a computer. Compute is to find an output from an input. The ability to change readily is not a requirement of use. The first US computer took days to reconfigure.

I totally believe it to be a true analog computer most likely to be used in navigation. If it was a timepiece of solar/celestial calculator or what not I can't guess. I rather doubt any argument could be made to suggest it was a toy or such.

In a very strict sense, a scale is a computer in the same analog type of calculation. I'd argue that the use of a tool such as a scale dates back maybe 8000 years or more.

H_TeXMeX_H 05-23-2013 03:09 AM

It's a calculator, not a computer.

calculator
Quote:

Also called calculating machine. a small electronic or mechanical device that performs calculations, requiring manual action for each individual opertion.
computer
Quote:

Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Compare analog computer, digital computer.
http://dictionary.reference.com

I would say the ENIAC (1946) was the first true computer, the rest were just basic or advanced calculators. The ENIAC was fully electronic, programmable, and Turing complete. Sure, people are going to argue over this, but for sure the first computer came out in the 1940s.

A computer is very fast, general-purpose, fully electronic, programmable (capable of being automated), and Turing complete.
A calculator is usually slow, single-purpose or limited purpose, may be mechanical and/or electronic, and may or may not be Turing complete.

Yes, there is some ambiguity there, but you can't say that they are the same thing.

Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computers

patrick295767 05-23-2013 03:12 PM

ah ah ah :) very funny.

I did not know that the first computer was so old...

Oh, man, believe me, if I look into my lecture I can easily find something much older ;) :) Humans were pretty advanced in the past. History of sciences !!

Btw what about Leonardo Da Vinci machines/devices/inventions?

DavidMcCann 05-23-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H (Post 4957069)
A computer is very fast, general-purpose, fully electronic, programmable (capable of being automated), and Turing complete.
A calculator is usually slow, single-purpose or limited purpose, may be mechanical and/or electronic, and may or may not be Turing complete.

And what would you call an analogue computer? No-one ever talks about analogue calculators.

frieza 05-23-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H (Post 4957069)
It's a calculator, not a computer.

calculator
Quote:

Also called calculating machine. a small electronic or mechanical device that performs calculations, requiring manual action for each individual opertion.
computer
Quote:

Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Compare analog computer, digital computer.
http://dictionary.reference.com

I would say the ENIAC (1946) was the first true computer, the rest were just basic or advanced calculators. The ENIAC was fully electronic, programmable, and Turing complete. Sure, people are going to argue over this, but for sure the first computer came out in the 1940s.

A computer is very fast, general-purpose, fully electronic, programmable (capable of being automated), and Turing complete.
A calculator is usually slow, single-purpose or limited purpose, may be mechanical and/or electronic, and may or may not be Turing complete.

Yes, there is some ambiguity there, but you can't say that they are the same thing.

Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computers

bah... modern definitions
the original definition of 'computer' according to wikipedia
Quote:

The term "computer", in use from the early 17th century (the first known written reference dates from 1613), meant "one who computes": a person performing mathematical calculations, before electronic computers became commercially available. "The human computer is supposed to be following fixed rules; he has no authority to deviate from them in any detail." (Turing, 1950) Teams of people were frequently used to undertake long and often tedious calculations; the work was divided so that this could be done in parallel.
technically a calculator IS a specialized computer
some of the earliest mechanical computers were devices to control weaving looms with punched metal cards.
yes it could be called a computer.

patrick295767 05-23-2013 11:47 PM

I think that H_TeXMeX_H is not that far from the accurate answer considering the difference between a calculator/device and a computer.

sounds correct:
Quote:

computer
Quote:
Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Compare analog computer, digital computer

H_TeXMeX_H 05-24-2013 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMcCann (Post 4957523)
And what would you call an analogue computer? No-one ever talks about analogue calculators.

Well, I didn't mention analog vs digital. The difference is the type of input and reliability.

frieza 05-24-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick295767 (Post 4957764)
I think that H_TeXMeX_H is not that far from the accurate answer considering the difference between a calculator/device and a computer.

sounds correct:

i might point out that we have hand held CALCULATORS that are more powerful than some of the full room sized behemoths called SUPER computers back in the day
the line between a 'calculator' and a 'computer' isn't as clear cut as you make it, really modern calculators are just highly specialized hand held computers.

jefro 05-24-2013 08:39 PM

I disagree with the web dictionary's definition of computer. A computer without any reference to digital or analog still encompasses the entire spectrum of computers.


Fortunately wiki page has an example of analog computer


"An analog computer is a form of computer"

"Analog computers were widely used in scientific and industrial applications where digital computers of the time lacked sufficient performance. Analog computers can have a very wide range of complexity. Slide rules and nomographs are the simplest, while naval gunfire control computers and large hybrid digital/analog computers were among the most complicated. Systems for process control and protective relays used analog computation to perform control and protective functions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer

patrick295767 05-25-2013 02:17 PM

1 Attachment(s)
In my opinion, a computer is something with Linux (or Debian preferably) ;) No CPU, no Linux.

I cannot install Linux on a simple gear, or cannot conceive it ;)

Just kidding.


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