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Old 08-18-2007, 05:26 PM   #16
rocket357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Oh please..., do some research.

PS: there's even a web interface to check and get all dependencies.
You don't need to like Debian, but claiming it doesn't beat every single RPM distro when it comes to dependencies is simply ridiculous.

Why do newbies keep bringing that up anyway?
Do you you fully understand both DPKG and RPM?
They're almost exactly the same (DEPs being faster though).
I think virtually all distros have a web-based mechanism for checking package dependencies (I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me).

Even pkg_add on many *BSD systems pulls in package dependencies automatically...I can't see this being an argument still...(haven't used RPM based distros in a while, though).
 
Old 08-18-2007, 06:17 PM   #17
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket357 View Post
I think virtually all distros have a web-based mechanism for checking package dependencies (I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me).
Well, I honestly doubt their exist a better web interface as the one from debian (and it's rather old).
Example for Amarok:
http://packages.debian.org/stable/kde/amarok
(It has an FF plugin as well)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket357 View Post
Even pkg_add on many *BSD systems pulls in package dependencies automatically...I can't see this being an argument still...(haven't used RPM based distros in a while, though).
From all BSDs, I mostly like OpenBSD.
Sadly it's still using CVS (IMHO, cvs just sucks).
It's dependencies handling is indeed not bad at all.
A GNU/BSD Debian under a GPL license would rock, but it will probably never happen (and I don't really like the _lets_give _everything_away_without_ever_asking_anything_back BSD-style license).

Thing is, the OP seems to think their's some huge difference between DPKG and RPM. That's just wrong.

Last edited by jens; 08-18-2007 at 06:50 PM.
 
Old 08-18-2007, 07:16 PM   #18
rocket357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Well, I honestly doubt their exist a better web interface as the one from debian (and it's rather old).
Example for Amarok:
http://packages.debian.org/stable/kde/amarok
(It has an FF plugin as well)
I've never used Debian, honestly. I've played around with a few of the Debian derivatives (Knoppix, Ubuntu, Mint, etc...), but I don't think I've ever actually used Debian. I'll have to check it out...heh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
From all BSDs, I mostly like OpenBSD.
Sadly it's still using CVS (IMHO, cvs just sucks).
It's dependencies handling is indeed not bad at all.
A GNU/BSD Debian under a GPL license would rock, but it will probably never happen (and I don't really like the _lets_give _everything_away_without_ever_asking_anything_back BSD-style license).
I love OpenBSD. I know there's a Gentoo/BSD project going now, and it's forked into FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD camps...might be worth a look:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/index.xml

Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Thing is, the OP seems to think their's some huge difference between DPKG and RPM. That's just wrong.
I'm a huge fan of portage. With tools like the gentoolkit package, (including equery and revdep-rebuild), package maintenance is a breeze.

As long as the package management system you're using allows you to add packages (pulling in dependencies as well), remove packages completely, and modify package install/remove options, then you really can't go wrong with it =) (Beyond that, other options such as security checks (glsa-check or the FreeBSD vulnerability database check in ports, etc...), compatibility checks, etc... are all just icing on the cake).

At that point, it's just a matter of preference...and spamming your preference as the set-in-stone factual "best" is hogwash.

Last edited by rocket357; 08-18-2007 at 07:19 PM.
 
Old 08-19-2007, 09:22 AM   #19
alred
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>> "As long as the package management system you're using allows you to add packages (pulling in dependencies as well), remove packages completely, and modify package install/remove options, then you really can't go wrong with it =) (Beyond that, other options such as security checks (glsa-check or the FreeBSD vulnerability database check in ports, etc...), compatibility checks, etc... are all just icing on the cake)."

if there are any package management that act and behave like apt-get then the fact is that not only they are good but they are also all the same ... if anything goes wrong ... than you just have to start learning something or simply stated -- anything ...

>> " ... but I don't think I've ever actually used Debian. I'll have to check it out...heh."

as the old saying goes ... competition are all very good ...


.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 01:03 AM   #20
BajaNick
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Holy Hell!!!!!!!

Its the MEGA "This has been posted a thousand times and I should have done a search thread"

 
Old 08-20-2007, 03:15 AM   #21
b0uncer
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Long post..wow.

Shortly said, why not use them both, since most of the users of any operating system do find some tasks that would be easier to perform on another operating system? Now that virtualization makes life easy, especially for those with high-end hardware, there is hardly a reason to do self-torturing just because you "should only use one - the best - operating system". If you can't afford it, the answer is clear, and if you can afford, you should use them all.

Vista has right now big problems because it's so "incompatible" with everything older than itself, but in 5 years or so hardly anybody remembers the time before it. Not sure if MS is still around then, but anyway. It still doesn't mean people couldn't use it and something else.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 02:15 PM   #22
alred
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i donno why ... its just that having vista is fun ... ^_^


.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 03:23 PM   #23
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alred View Post
i donno why ... its just that having vista is fun ... ^_^


.
Well, most Windows users are hypocrites.
I do have a Vista copy as well, but its installer just doesn't work properly.
Before it installs anything it asks you to agree with an insane agreement.
Since I'm not insane I always press the "no" button, but that sadly stops the installation as well.
It's really an unfixable bug.

For me, it's mostly a moral decision.

Last edited by jens; 08-20-2007 at 03:27 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 03:37 PM   #24
alred
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honestly speaking , i havent gone into that part yet ... i'm still holding to the original copy on the disk and really really donno what to do with it ... way too much choices of "incompatible" systems ... !! ^_^


//and i'm not saying vista is a bad system ...


.

Last edited by alred; 08-20-2007 at 03:38 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 03:50 PM   #25
rocket357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Well, most Windows users are hypocrites.
I do have a Vista copy as well, but its installer just doesn't work properly.
Before it installs anything it asks you to agree with an insane agreement.
Since I'm not insane I always press the "no" button, but that sadly stops the installation as well.
It's really an unfixable bug.
Bug?? BUG?!?

That, my friend, is an undocumented feature that they worked YEARS on!

To quote an unknown individual..."Microsoft has come up with many new innovations...unfortunately, their legal department is responsible for them all..."
 
Old 08-20-2007, 06:28 PM   #26
sundialsvcs
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As someone who daily uses Windows, Linux, and Macintosh OS/X (Unix), I would simply offer the opinion that this is a specious, irrelevant argument. Let me explain ...

"A computer is a tool that you buy, probably at a home-electronics store, to solve a problem." Like all tools, from your family car down to your toaster, you mostly care that it works, not how it works. You purchase the tool, not to (have to) focus upon the tool itself, but rather to solve the problem. And, like a car, you basically expect years of faithful service from the thing even if you do nothing at all to it. (A computer probably achieves that, much better than a car.)

The problem is solved by your chosen application, and the application runs on a particular operating system which runs on a particular type of hardware. But "the problem" is at the top of the heap, and "the application" is immediately behind. The operating-system is a very-distant third: it is nothing more than a means to an end.

Now, I grant you, "this is a Linux forum," and presumably we're expected to be "Linux fanboys" ... but I think we all need to acknowledge that Microsoft is damn good at what they do. Perhaps you don't like the latest version of Windows (and neither do I, and that's why I am not running it yet...) but that's no valid justification for discarding Windows; let alone for replacing it with Linux.

I run Windows because, and in the cases where, it suits the needs of a particular application. The same is true for Linux, and for OS/X. Each system is distinctly different, and each one has (imho) no cause to "draw its legitimacy from, or at the expense of," any other.

I do believe that, it is nothing less than imperative .. vital(!) .. that, if you call yourself a professional in this industry, you m-u-s-t become familiar with Linux!! However, you should do this alongside, not instead of, any Windows installations that you can continue to business-justify.

It is not .. it is never .. an "either/or" argument. You need to wear three(!) hats! All three systems stand, on their own merits. None of them depend for their success upon the demise of the other.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-20-2007 at 06:30 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2007, 07:33 PM   #27
Tinkster
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While I'm quite happy with
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
None of them depend for their success upon the demise of the other.
I can't see a justification for
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
You need to wear three(!) hats!
... I'm a professional in 'this industry' whose sole job is
to work with Linux and Solaris systems. No need to for me
to get proficient with windows, and at the moment I only have
to use it in a VM session because of our silly time-tracking
and HR software.
And I find
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
All three systems stand, on their own merits.
arguable :} ... it *may* be that Macs and Windows installations
have some benefits to you; for me they're obstacles, Macs in
particular are rather painful in heterogenous environments.

The statements definitely don't belong in one paragraph,
though, since they're unrelated ;}


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-20-2007, 07:35 PM   #28
Tinkster
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While I'm quite happy with
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
None of them depend for their success upon the demise of the other.
I can't see a justification for
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
You need to wear three(!) hats!
... I'm a professional in 'this industry' whose sole job is
to work with Linux and Solaris systems. No need for me to
get proficient with windows, and at the moment I only have
to use it in a VM session because of our silly time-tracking
and HR software.


And I find
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
All three systems stand, on their own merits.
arguable :} ... it *may* be that Macs and Windows installations
have some benefits to you; for me they're obstacles, Macs in
particular are rather painful in heterogenous environments.

The statements definitely don't belong in one paragraph,
though, since they're unrelated ;}


Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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