Can computer manufacturers track the computer with GPS
 

I just wanted to know if computer/tablet manufacturers who sell devices with onboard GPS could use the GPS to locate the machine. Do they keep records of the computers they sell that could later be used for tracking purposes, or is this illegal? What about if the computer was lost during shipping? Could they track it down?

Hope somebody knows about this. Thanks. :)

The GPS only works if the machine is turned on. The one in my iPhone only works if it's turned on and also has Internet access. A device that's simply been lost during shipping would not be turned on. So no.

Nope. They don't. If they did, then they would be offering a (paid) "find my lost device" service that they could operate from their head office. "Apple, I lost my iPhone." "May I have your AppleCare account number?" "Yes. It's xxx-xxx-xxx". "One second please... Your iPhone is currently located at <insert address here>. Your AppleCare account is still good for two more lost device recoveries."

Storing and retrieving data costs money, and a company would only do it if the benefits to them outweight the cost.

And... illegal? If they wanted to do it and there was a question about legality, they'll just ask for your permission in the EULA.

Virtually all modern computers have a built-in "find your computer" routine built into the motherboard. It's called, "Lojack for Laptops". It's a factory pre-installed backdoor that cannot be removed! It must be activated first though, and it works via a wired Internet connection. It must be activated in Windows and there is no Linux client for it. If you use Linux, it's effectively crippled. which makes it's only practical use to spy on Windows users! :p
http://www.absolute.com/en-GB/lojackforlaptops/home

They can, but they probably don't. I can't say the same for various agencies out there...

Contrary what movies make you believe, GPS is a one way system. A pure GPS receiver is only able to tell you your position. To tell somebody else where you are the device also needs the possibility to send that data to the person that wants to track you.

So while it may be possible to have a backdoor in a device that has GPS and the possibility to send the data, the real problem is the sheer number of devices with GPS. Tracking all those devices would be really expensive, the person that wants to track has to pay all the network traffic, needs an enormous amount of storage servers for saving all that data (not to mention energy costs, ..., to run such a server farm).

So the answer: Possible only for devices that have the capacity to send data, but only viable if done for single persons that are actively tracked.

Tablets all have wifi. Coordinate data can be stored locally and sent once the user connects.

I agree that GPS receivers cannot send your location back to the satellite. For that you would need a rather bulky antenna and a subscription, like satellite phones have.

Thanks everybody. So, if GPS is a one way system (thanks Tobi), but the data could be stored also be locally, like H_TeXMeX_H says, then it could be theoretically be sent to the manufacturer once the user connects via wifi, right? But is this something they actually do? If a computer were lost during shipping and someone else found it, for instance (or stole it), could they track it down?

Moderator Response
 

Moved: This thread is more suitable in <General> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

De-caf?

Sorry, I thought I posted in General.

I've been drinking chamomile tea all day and it doesn't help. :P

I'd say no, they couldn't track it electronically. Not because it's not technically possible, but because it's not logistically possible.
The cost would far outweigh the benefits and insurances takes care of any losses that do occur.

Tinfoil hat? ;)

Where's the "middle finger" emoticon on this forum? ;)

Apple devices were found to be recording GPS coordinates locally: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04...tion_tracking/
There is also a service to find your device offered for Apple and Android kit. Of course both need a data connection as mentioned.
There is also, I think, a Federal mandate that all phones sold in the US will have to have GPS onboard so that "911 callers can be located" -- make of that what you will.
So, yes, manufacturers can and do track devices as do law enforcement, the owners of the devices and probably some criminals too. If it's possible nowadays then it's probably being done -- there's nothing paranoid about worrying that we now live in a society where our every move is tracked.

good one. :)

Yes, most of the newer devices could be tracked if one knew detailed info on the device. A factory would know that data. I had a relative that had many patents on phone and gps and knows a great deal on the inner workings of many devices. He and a I suppose hackers and OEM's could do things like turn on gps and recover hardware.

I'd assume that a court order would be required for most legal issues.

There are many people who install software to recover their systems. One of them happened to a girl in town who used her phone to find her computer. She met the police at a location. They requested her data and obtained a warrant to search a truck. The truck was stolen and stuff inside belonged to her and others. The police would not have been allowed to search the car without a warrant and make any arrest work. We do have a big market for criminal lawyers. They get paid to get crooks off. I mean a fair day in court.

Cellphones and tablets are embedded devices and that makes a difference. Their OS is installed and initiated in the production line because their 'hard drive' is a flash memory chip that's soldered directly to the motherboard.

In Laptops and Desktops, the OS is installed at a later point and only initiated by the end user. Wifi and GPS cards also need firmware that is loaded at bootup. They won't be functional on a machine that hasn't been booted up yet.

So it is unlikely that a laptop that is stolen while being shipped from a factory could be detected in the same way that a tablet or cellphone could.

Once an end user has received and activated their device, there are methods for tracing and recovery. But for laptops and desktops, this often relies on software that the end user installs, together with a premium service that they must pay for.

Actually yes, it is paranoid. Tracking you will only occur if there is a reason to do so, just because tracking everyone all the time for no good reason is simply to expensive. According to this slightly older article there were 1.3 million activated Android devices per day September last year, if you see the growth rate by now it should be far more. To track you all the time (and keeping in mind the speed of modern transportation systems) you need to have a reasonable resolution in time to make tracking somewhat reliable, lets be generous and say tracking occurs once every 20 minutes, 3 times per hour, 78 times a day. This would mean that there are only for the devices activated on one day there are 93.6 million entries in a database for that exact day, 34.164 billion entries a year for only the devices activated at that same day. Now count in the devices activated at the next day and the day after that, ... .
You would need a pretty gigantic server farm to manage that.

It is not viable (read: simply to expensive) to track all people all the time. So tracking is only done when it is necessary (or a warrant exists that says to do so, in countries were a warrant for tracking people is needed).

As I already mentioned users of apple devices were tracked constantly by Apple. Of course, Apple didn't really want the data so probably didn't take it off the devices but it proves it's perfectly possible.
Service providers already keep records of which phone connected to which cell[s] when and it wouldn't take much more room to add GPS coordinates if this isn't been done already.
It may be extremely unlikely that one entity could keep track of every Android device that exists in real time but that isn't how these things work.

And your source was The Register ;)

Of course, can you think of a more reliable source? ;)

If I can't, then that means that the story can safely be dismissed because it's uncorroborated, not that The Register wins by default and gets taken as gospel.

I've spent a few minutes looking for the judge's decision, but I haven't found it yet. In the meantime, here's Apple's answer. Criticize away: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011...tion-Data.html

I'm sorry, my reply was merely tongue-in-cheek, hence the wink.
The story was widely reported at the time:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04...hy-it-matters/
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/goo...ry?id=13436330
As I mentioned, not real-time and not centralised Big Brother tracking but it did happen and still likely does.

Here is something relevant. They can track your iPad or iPhone:
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/13/...user-locations

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How do you know?

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and I agree. All this hoopla over embedded devices.
Any provider within the Jurisdiction of any US Federal Court can be forced to cough up every thing about you. </shock>

DMCA Title II, the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act ("OCILLA"), creates a safe harbor for online service providers (OSPs, including ISPs) against copyright infringement liability, provided they meet specific requirements. OSPs must adhere to and qualify for certain prescribed safe harbor guidelines and promptly block access to alleged infringing material (or remove such material from their systems) when they receive notification of an infringement claim from a copyright holder or the copyright holder's agent. OCILLA also includes a counternotification provision that offers OSPs a safe harbor from liability to their users when users claim that the material in question is not, in fact, infringing. OCILLA also facilitates issuing of subpoenas against OSPs to provide their users' identity.

1.2 Title II: Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act and Safe Harbor_(law)

They will sell you out to be compliant with DMCA.

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Thanks. :)

Don't a lot of tablets have their OS installed on a regular SSD? Like the 10.1 inch ones? And does it make any difference if it is an ARM or an x86 device? My friend has a Windows tablet with the OS on a regular internal SSD.

Most laptops ship with an OS installed -- the ones I've seen have all come in factory-sealed boxes anyhow.
Some come with this product installed:
http://www3.absolute.com/lojackforlaptops/technology
Most, currently, either don't have the necessary software installed or have it deactivated in BIOS. However, that doesn't mean it can't be done, just that it is not often done.
I've also seen quite a lot of this kind of thing:
http://www.freakyacres.com/remove_computrace_lojack
Now I know it's not likely that Acer (for example) will be trying to store information about everybody's laptop but, again, there's the possibility for them to locate the machine if one of the posters is to be believed.